A modern day GRAY clone

[zwarte-romantiek]

Hi,

Looking on World's greatest selling market I came across this seller from the Ukraine who made a modern day clone of a GRAY tonearm.



At least it is affordable, much cheaper than an original Gray. Some folks are building new GARRARD 301 too, so  I guess it was just a matter of time.
I do not know if I like it or not Or even buy it (I still need an arm for my upcoming THORENS TD-124.....) But for some strange reasons I am intrigued by this arm.

Niels

[dauphine]

Now this is a lovely piece of workmanship.

Enlighten me - what exactly makes Gray Research? arms desireable. Is it the "look", how they sound, their facilities or what?

Maybe it's time to get weaned-off my preference of Micro and Grace arms

dauphine/andre

[ZZMoko]

Do you have a link that you could share?

[richard]

Andre,

It's a sensible viscous-damped concept. The arm does not use precision pinpoint bearings, but instead, floats with a ball-in-socket arrangement. Location is good enough for decent alignment. Therefore, the only friction is in the fluid itself. It's, essentially, a "unipivot."

Damping can be controlled, as is typical, with selection of fluid viscosity. But the Gray arm also offers an adjustment knob. I think that this knob adjusts the damping by adjusting the ball-socket spacing: that's cool and clever.

The Gray arms look like klutzes, but they're made of aviation-age aluminum, so are lighter than they look. Smart. As I recall, the design keeps the fluid in the bowl with gravity, which is one advantage that I don't have with my treasured Weathers arms (see below). The Weathers arms are always seeping fluid, someplace, slowly, slowly.

I've never had one of these, but was drawn, instead, to the Weathers arm, which also floats on silicon-greased drum-in-sleeve bearings. Whatever floating design one considers, it's important that the assembly be precisely-positioned enough to prevent "crab motion" and fluttering. Thus, I cannot get behind an air-bearing arm. Good damping of the cartridge's support platform is essential for good reproduction. But I know that you know this already.

[Bonzo]

Here it is!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271768979771?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[dauphine]

Dear Richard

Thank you for the excellent description. One is never too old to learn something new. I have read brief references on many forums about these arms over the years but never anything about what is underneath the angled channel or what precisely makes them so sought after.

I have viewed the pics in Bonzo's link and knowing a bit about machining and metal work, one can only have appreciation and admiration for the seller of this reproduction arm who used multi-disciplinary metalworking techniques to recreate this product.

I hope its creator sees Zwarte Romantiek's post and give us some background about his work.

andre

[richard]

One thing that I have learned in long years with audio is that there's usually no such thing as "best," but instead, there are at least two different ways of achieving a goal. We've been blessed with a few designers who have a maturity, an overview, an understanding of how things actually work. The Gray arm has been around for a very long time and I think that what people have liked about it, especially professionals, has been its stability. It's stable in its interaction with the stylus, but it's also stable in its handling.

When I was broadcasting, one thing that I did not appreciate was the handling of our Shure professional arms. I probably would have disliked the Rek-O-Kut arms for the same reason: human design that makes it easy for the arm to fly out of your hand. The Gray simply won't do that! So, the Gray arm is not the best arm that has ever been (there isn't one), but it's a good one, and it probably makes you smile when you lift it and put the needle in the groove.

[jervill]

Something to help illustrate what Richard described:

http://members.myactv.net/~je183/retro.htm

[bob06]

Hi,

Looking on World's greatest selling market I came across this seller from the Ukraine who made a modern day clone of a GRAY tonearm.



At least it is affordable, much cheaper than an original Gray. Some folks are building new GARRARD 301 too, so  I guess it was just a matter of time.
I do not know if I like it or not Or even buy it (I still need an arm for my upcoming THORENS TD-124.....) But for some strange reasons I am intrigued by this arm.

Niels
I have seen that arm and I like it but I would like to know what holds the headshell in place. I do not see anything that holds it.  The old grays had clips that the headshell slid into.

[berlinta]

Hi guys,
Jeremy beat me to it, but I would like to elaborate as Richard's description is wrong. The Gray 108 and its many clones ARE unipivot arms, albeit rather heavily damped(in all three degrees of freedom) by the silicone fluid that is kept in the socket(semi-circular trough)that can be seen in the cross-sectional drawing in Jeremy's link. They are not floating, it's the pin and bearing cup that define the fulcrum.

In the case of the original and some, but not all clones, the "depth" of the bearing "screw" (in fact an upside down bearing cup) can be adjusted(raised/lowered) so that the silicone film between through/socket and "ball" is allowing for the arm to drop in about 2 seconds from an "up"/cueing position until hitting(actually: gently making contact with) the record. Wider gap: less damping -  and vice versa.

Not all Gray 108s are made from Aluminum, nor are all of the clones. Many are cast, several are made from folded or stamped sheet metal, all have a rather high to extremely high effective mass. None that I have seen have a provision for overhang adjustment as pretty much all of these were to be used with GE VR type carts, - with the occasional Fairchild to be found in unaltered setups. But Fairchild sold their own, well reputed arms, so...

Tracking force adjustment is achieved via additional plates to be put between the cart and cart holder(lost with 9 out of 10 arms). Not always easy to use a "modern" cartridge with a Gray(clone).

Sonically, most of these are WAAYY better than you'd guess from looking at their massive, sometimes clunky appeareance. Especially with GEs, other vintage, low compliance mono carts and some modern(real) Monos, they are very good. I own both shorter and longer versions, the longer one, made by Neat, carries a Miyajima Labs Premium Be and is truly excellent. The shorter Gray works with well with a Denon DL102 and is nearly too heavy for a DL103. Nuded original SPUs are mechanically an o.k. match, sonically, - too dark...

Have a great weekend,

Frank

[zwarte-romantiek]

Hi,

But if you decide to make a modern day GRAY arm, would it not be nice to make it more versatile - to be used with more modern day cartridges than a GE RPX or other mono cartridges?
In other words: the looks of this great 1950s arm and the use of modern day (stereo) cartridges?

Niels

[bobyk]

I have a few things made by the guy who producing this tonearm. Perfect quality must say.
Sure the tonearm is as good as it looks like.

[Charlie S]

As Frank mentioned, there is no provision for adjusting stylus overhang once the Gray Research arm is mounted.  The installation instructions (which are on the Vinyl Engine site) give various mounting overhang distances depending on intended use: 

     3/8"   12" and smaller records, or up to 16"occasionally
     1/2"   16" frequently, and smaller
     1"      16" exclusively.   

This illustrates the manufacturer's recognition that optimum stylus overhang depends on inner and outer playing radii.  For instance, a 7" 45-rpm single fits entirely within the label/deadwax area of a 16" transcription disc.  A bit of a dilemma in that age for a broadcaster needing to accommodate a mix of disc sizes.  And a good thing that only spherical stylus tips were in use!

The Gray's installation instructions also call out weight slides to use for various cartridge models, including ones from ESL, Fairchild, General Electric, and Pickering.  I'd wager that the majority of users opted for G.E. RPXs.

[old woody]

carries a Miyajima Labs Premium Be and is truly excellent

  I have thought about trying this cartridge on my Gray but i was concerned it wouldn't fit on the slider ...do you have a picture of the Miyajima on the slider ? does it fit ok ?

[analogadikt]

In the case of the original and some, but not all clones, the "depth" of the bearing "screw" (in fact an upside down bearing cup) can be adjusted(raised/lowered) so that the silicone film between through/socket and "ball" is allowing for the arm to drop in about 2 seconds from an "up"/cueing position until hitting(actually: gently making contact with) the record. Wider gap: less damping -  and vice versa.


Frank

Thank you Frank. This cleared the doubts I had looking at the drawing in Jermy's link.

Regards,