2011 weli gamodis oTxSabaTobiT

C M Y K<br />

#44 (173) 9-15.XI, <strong>2011</strong> <strong>weli</strong> <strong>gamodis</strong> <strong>oTxSabaTobiT</strong> www.saertogazeti.net; e-mail: saertogazeti@yahoo.com fasi 1 lari<br />

biZina<br />

ivaniSvili:<br />

`ar megona, rom<br />

miliarderi gavxdebodi~<br />

biZina ivaniSvilis pirveli interviu,<br />

romelic 2005 wels<br />

gazeT `vedomostSi~ daibeWda.<br />

intervius sruli teqsti<br />

qarTul enaze qveyndeba pirvelad.<br />

`bednieri var, rom sufTa warsuli maqvs da garwmunebT, xelisuflebis ideologebs TavianTi mcdelobani<br />

sikeTes ver moutans. mudmivad iseT gvarebs atrialeben, romelic cnobili araa saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis.<br />

mudmivad cdiloben, xalxs eWvi gauCinon Cemze.<br />

erTaderT interviuSi, romelic gazeT `vedomosts~ miveci, yvela es gvaria dasaxelebuli da pasuxic iqvea gacemuli.<br />

es ambavi karga xania warsuls Cahbarda. Jurnalistebma maSin verc erTi Savi xazi ver mipoves. erTi Tve ar<br />

beWdavdnen Cems intervius. ver warmoedginaT, rom ruseTSi SeiZleboda aseTi kaci yofiliyo, Tanac qarTuli gvariT.<br />

rogorc aq ar vCndebodi, ufro metad ar vCandi ruseTSi. didxans elodnen Cem gamoCenas, amis Semdgom yvela<br />

sainformacio saSualebam gaaSuqa es interviu, grami eWvic ki aravis Seutania Cems naTqvamSi, radgan interviuSi<br />

imdenad gulwrfelad maqvs pasuxebi gacemuli, eWvis natamalic ki ar rCeboda.~<br />

es interviu biZina ivaniSvilis oponentebs<br />

erTxel da samudamod daukargavs usafuZvlo<br />

braldebebis da samarcxvino Woraobis xasiaTs

---

2<br />

saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

redaqtoris sveti<br />

or kviraSi<br />

axali samoqalaqomoZraoba<br />

dafuZndeba,<br />

Tumca es moZraobafaqtobrivad<br />

ukve dafuZnebulia<br />

da, Tamamad SeiZleba<br />

iTqvas,<br />

misi damfuZnebeli,<br />

pirvel<br />

yovlisa, qarTveli<br />

xalxia.<br />

bevri saxalxo moZraoba gvinaxavs,<br />

Tumca saxelis miuxedavad,<br />

am moZraobebs moZraoba<br />

uWirdaT da saxeli saxalxoc<br />

ise markis asawevad hqondaT<br />

miwebebuli, Torem iq xalxi<br />

aravis unaxavs.<br />

samoqalaqo moZraoba `qar-<br />

Tuli ocneba~ albaT is erTaderTi<br />

bednieri gamonaklisi<br />

iqneba qarTul sinamdvileSi,<br />

romelic uamrav adamians gaaerTianebs<br />

erTi droSis qveS da<br />

safuZvels daudebs samoqalaqo<br />

sazogadoebis Camoyalibebas<br />

saqarTveloSi.<br />

`zogi Wiri margebeliao~,<br />

naTqvamia.<br />

`Wiri~, romlis gamoc biZina<br />

ivaniSvils saqarTvelos moqalaqeoba<br />

Seuwyvites, gaxda imis<br />

winapiroba, rom ver Seiqmna kidev<br />

erTi axali politikuri<br />

organizacia, samagierod dafuZnda<br />

samoqalaqo moZraoba,<br />

rac mocemul situaciaSi gacilebiT<br />

efeqturi da masStaburi<br />

SeiZleba aRmoCndes, vidre<br />

politikuri partia.<br />

darwmunebuli var, `qarTuli<br />

ocneba~ gaxdeba yvelaze<br />

mravalricxovani, yvelaze mobiluri<br />

da organizebuli Zala,<br />

romelic arsebul realobas<br />

ukeTesobisken Secvlis da<br />

sxvadasxva wvril-wvril partiul<br />

Tu arasamTavrobo organizaciebSi<br />

daqsaqsul da dafantul<br />

qarTvel xalxs erT<br />

monoliTur sxeulad Sekravs.<br />

maS ase, asparezze <strong>gamodis</strong><br />

misi udidebulesoba qarTveli<br />

xalxi, rac imas niSnavs, rom<br />

droa viRac-viRaceebma Cemodnebis<br />

Calageba daiwyon...<br />

vaxtang xarCilava<br />

`saerTo gazeTi~<br />

mTavari redaqtori: vaxtang xarCilava<br />

gamomcemeli: Sps sagamomcemlo centri `saerTo sityva~<br />

mis: Tbilisi, aRmaSeneblis 164;<br />

tel.: 2 14 40 19; 2 34 28 97<br />

registraciis #202375349<br />

stummrrebi - zaza firaliSvili (filosofosi);<br />

lela iakobaSvili (kulturologi)<br />

wammyvani - nino ffirrcxalava<br />

ukanasknel pperriodSi sazogadoeba, mmiuxedavad<br />

immisa, rromm dayoffilia gansxvavebuli<br />

mmosazrrebebis da orrientaciebis jguffebad, rra-<br />

Rac errTi mmTlianis garrSemmo gaerrTianebis<br />

surrvils gammoTqqvamms...<br />

rrammdenad da rrogorr mmoaxerrxa qqarrTulmma<br />

sazogadoebamm sammoqqalaqqo sazogadoebad Cammoylibebis<br />

fforrmmirreba mmas Semmdeg, rrac<br />

mmtkivneulad ganicada yvela is rrefforrmma ,<br />

rrommelic gammowveulia saorrientacio veqqtorrebis<br />

cvlilebiT; Cveni qqveynisTvis CrrdiloeTidan<br />

dasavleTisaken Sebrruneba sakmmaod<br />

mmtkivneuli aRmmoCnda.<br />

wamyvani:- qarTuli sazogadoeba 20<br />

<strong>weli</strong>a yalibdeba, garkveuli etapebi gaiara,<br />

Tumca saboloo formirebisaTvis, rasac samoqalaqo<br />

sazogadoeba hqvia, albaT Zalian<br />

bevria gasavleli... batono zaza, rogor gaigo<br />

Cveulebrivma rigiTma qarTvelma demokratia?<br />

zaza firaliSvili - rom giTxraT,<br />

rom Cven gvesmis, Tu ra aris demokratia,<br />

Sors viqnebi simarTlisagan! es iseTi Tvisebaa,<br />

romelsac mopoveba sWirdeba da romelic<br />

erTxel mopovebis Semdeg samudamod geqneba!<br />

amitom saubari, rom Cven raRac momentidan<br />

demokratiulebi varT an viqnebiT, ar SeiZleba!<br />

misi mopoveba sakmarisad rTuli gaxlavT;<br />

is seroizul istoriul praqtikas<br />

moiTxovs; moiTxovs Tanaarsebobisa da Tanam-<br />

Sromlobis kulturis SemuSavebas sazogadoebaSi,<br />

rac Cven gvaklia!<br />

lela iakobiSvili - TavisTavad, sadac<br />

demokratia daibada saberZneTSi, iq polisebis<br />

kultura ukve arsebobda! es Tavis-<br />

Tavad, qalaquri cxovrebis kulturaa... misi<br />

meore versia ukve evropaSi ganxorcielda,<br />

sadac qalaqebi Sedga, rogorc industriulkulturuli<br />

centrebi! da adamianebi Tavisi<br />

interaqciebiT qalaquri komunikaciebis sqemaSi<br />

iyo CarTuli! qalaqs hqonda erTiani informaciuli<br />

veli, romelic struqturirdeboda<br />

Tavisi samarTliT, urTierTobebis<br />

formatebiT, arqiteqturiT, socialuri fenebiT<br />

da a. S.<br />

ai, es epoqa qarTvelebs ar gagvivlia! ase<br />

vTqvaT, Cven qalaqSi Camogvasaxles, industrias<br />

gvaziares... qalaqi Tavisi topologiuri<br />

sivrciT, Sinagani dinamizmiT, struqturiT,<br />

kulturis garsiT, es evropisTvisac<br />

gviani Sua saukuneebis Semdeg daiwyo, bur-<br />

Juaziis dabadebis Semdeg! burJuazia CvenTan<br />

dRes ibadeba. amitom, sworad gamigeT, saidan,<br />

rogor SemiZlia samoqalaqo interaqciebSi<br />

CaverTo, rodesac me rom moqalaqe gavmxdariyavi,<br />

amis moZalade bolSevizmi iyo! amitom<br />

gardatexis asaki am mimarTulebiT Cven<br />

ar gagvivlia! dResac postindustriul xana-<br />

Si procesebi Zaladobrivi mgonia...<br />

dasavleTSi SeimCneva deurbanizaciis<br />

swrafi tempi, xolo saqarTvelos centralur<br />

qalaqebSi urbanizaciis stiqiuri procesia!<br />

anu is socialuri sivrceebi, romlebic<br />

Tavis droze vaWrobas mohyva evropaSi,<br />

Cvens Tvalwin daiwyo saqarTveloSi. aq jerjerobiT<br />

eliavasa da lilos bazroba aris<br />

e.w. burJuaziuli interaqcia!<br />

- klasikuri gagebiT, samoqalaqo sazogadoeba<br />

Tavis TavSi moiazrebs politikur<br />

partiebs, arasamTavrobo seqtors da medias!<br />

b-no zaza, ramdenad erTnairad viTardeba es<br />

sami sfero bolo 20 wlis ganmavlobaSi da<br />

ramdenad SeaqvT sakuTari wvlili demokratiuli<br />

procesis ganviTarebaSi?<br />

zaza firaliSvili _ samwuxaroa,<br />

magram arasamTavrobo seqtori garkveulwilad<br />

iqca biznesad. unda airCion is lingvistika,<br />

romliTac unda isaubron saerTaSoriso<br />

donorebTan da Semdeg rom moaxdinon<br />

Targmani rigiTi moqalaqis enaze, es ar<br />

aRelvebT da arc ainteresebT! saerTaSoriso<br />

donors ar esmis, rom kulturas Tavisi<br />

metyveleba, lingvistika aqvs da garkveuli<br />

kvlevebi, mignebebi Tu WeSmaritebebis produqtebi<br />

masTan misTvis gasageb enaze unda<br />

iqnes mitanili, raTa maTi sruli aRqma moxdes.<br />

amaze arasamTavrobo seqtori iSviaTad<br />

Tu zrunavs. bevri maTgani sakmaod seriozuli<br />

qonebis mepatrone gaxda donori organizaciebis<br />

wyalobiT, magram maT Sesaxeb mxolod<br />

viwro wrem icis da Sesabamisad, isini<br />

araviTar rols ar TamaSoben ubralo adamianisTvis!<br />

lela iakobaSvili _ metsac vityvi...<br />

esaa seqta! seqta, Tavisi metyvelebis<br />

formatiT, Tavisi cnebiTi aparatiT. ”enjeoSnikebi”<br />

erTmaneTs kargad ugeben; kulturaSi<br />

vera, magram erTmaneTSi SeaqvT SfoTi... es<br />

arian hiperaqtiuri adamianebi, romlebic amis<br />

realizebas socialur sivrceSi Znelad<br />

axerxeben, amitom donorebTan metad hiperaqtiurni<br />

arian; SemoaqvT iseTi cnebiT aparati,<br />

romelic sruliad acdenilia Cems bunebriv<br />

metyvelebas da misi Targmanebac ki SeuZlebelia<br />

da mainc Tu moxexrxda, es imdenad<br />

komikuria, rom statistikuri adamiani<br />

amas ganicdis!...<br />

zaza firaliSvili _ Cven varT<br />

gardamavali sazogadoeba, romelic raRac<br />

stabiluri, stuqturulad gamarTuli mdgomareobisaken<br />

midis... magram ra Tqma unda,<br />

jerjerobiT amas vakeTebT mouxeSavad, SecdomebiT..<br />

magram amas ver davabraleb vercerT<br />

xelisuflebas. es isev istoriuli Cvevebis<br />

problemaa. yvelaferi es Caivlis, Caivlis<br />

is, rac gvawuxebs da darCeba is, rac saWiroa!<br />

da Tu Cven cocxali xalxi varT, Tu<br />

CvenSi aris cocxali muxti, energetika, namdvilad<br />

gadavrCebiT! mTavaria, meti racionalizmi,<br />

rac Cven gvWirdeba da naklebi egzaltireba.<br />

- dRes sazogadoebaSi bevrs msjeloben<br />

mediis problemebze, rogorc Tavad Jurnalistebi,<br />

aseve eqspertebi, mediaproduqtis<br />

momxmareblebi da sxv. qarTuli media aris<br />

polarizebuli, aqvs naxevradTavisufali xarisxis<br />

indeqsi... rogor SeafasebdiT qarTuli<br />

mediis mdgomareobas da SeuZlia Tu ara<br />

mas politikuri zegavlenisagan gaTavisufleba?<br />

lela iakobiSvili _ Tavad sazogadoeba<br />

mediis produqtia! amitom SemiZlia<br />

vTqva, rom saqarTveloSi mediis reqviemi ukve<br />

namReria!<br />

ra aqvs medias saTqmeli? gaqvT rame saTqmeli?<br />

dRes Tqven ar gaqvT saTqmeli! is, rasac<br />

Tqven politikur dakveTas eZaxiT, im politikur<br />

Zalebsac ki araferi aqvT CvenTvis<br />

saTqmeli. sazriss arcerTi ar atarebs. vercerTi<br />

politikuri Zala Tavis sityvasTan<br />

identuri ver aris. dRes ai, es problemaa,<br />

amitom bunebrivia, rom media propagandistul<br />

iaraRad iqca... arsebobs komunikaciuri<br />

sistemis instrumentad anu ori politikuri<br />

Zala erTmeneTs esaubreba gazeTebiT; erTi<br />

politikuri Zala sazogadoebas esaubreba<br />

televiziiT, ramdenime maTgani da arasamTavrobo<br />

organizaciebi - internetT! es aris da<br />

es! politikuri Zalis saTqmeli mediam Cemamde<br />

unda moitanos... sadac media Tavis funqcias<br />

asrulebs, sadac SemoqmedebiTi sivrcis<br />

maprovocirebeli da makonstruirebelia da<br />

maT Soris damlagebelia, is<br />

media sad aris?... media aRar<br />

aris, ase vityodi da is, rom axali<br />

media gaCndes Cems socialur<br />

organizmSi, niSnavs, rom qar-<br />

Tul elitas, aramxolod politikurs,<br />

gauCndes saTqmeli, romelic<br />

ar aqvs!<br />

_ batono zaza, ra aris mizezi, rom<br />

dRes gvaqvs is ori media da mesame, romelic<br />

sasurvelia, jer ar Cans...<br />

zaza firaliSvili _ 90-ian<br />

wlebSi gabatonda tendencia, romelic<br />

dRes mTel Cvens media-sivrces flobs.<br />

anu politikosebma igrZnes , Tu rogori<br />

Zala iyo media da am sivrcis daufleba<br />

daiwyes da mediamac ikisra propagandituli<br />

funqcia. Tundac imitom, rom is<br />

sxvagvarad ver irCens Tavs. saSualo yoveldRiur<br />

adamians moTxovnileba aqvs<br />

mkveTri, yviTeli informaciisken da mediam<br />

SesTavaza yviTeli informacia; Sesabamisad,<br />

mas uyalibdeba yviTeli gemovneba<br />

da yalibdeba raRac Caketili wre, sadac<br />

media ver grZnobs Tavis pasuxismgeblobas,<br />

rom man SeiZleba Camoayalibos sazogadoeba,<br />

romelic Tavisi azrovnebis kulturiT<br />

iqneba yviTeli. aq ukve Zalin mZime<br />

pasuxismgebloba ekisrebaT Cvens Jurnalistebs...<br />

Caivlis is, rac gvawuxebs<br />

da darCeba is, rac saWiroa!<br />

lela iakobaSvili - rodesac me mediis<br />

momxmarebeli var da erTaderTi informaciis<br />

wyaroa CemTvis, vkonstruirdebi im paternebiT,<br />

romelsac is mawvdis. rodesac gamokiTxvis<br />

Sedegebs aqveyneben da amboben, rom<br />

sazogadoebam ar icis, vinaa javaxiSvili da<br />

icis, vinaa biWola, es maTive danaSaulia!<br />

ramdeni <strong>weli</strong>a ivane javaxiSvilis saxeli<br />

qarTul mediaSi ar gaJRerebula, maSin rodesac<br />

biWola „ekranidan ar Camodis“ da ra<br />

Tqma unda, biWola ecodinebaT! mixeil javaxiSvili,<br />

rogorc mwerali, aravis SeuTavazebia<br />

mediidan; arc oTar WilaZe... adamianebi<br />

televiziidan erTsadaimave informacias iReben...<br />

zaza firaliSvili: - Sedagad ra<br />

gvaqvs? ramdenime ”seqtanturi dajgufebebi”<br />

- saxelisuflebo da opoziciuri politikuri<br />

partiebi, arasamTavrobo organizaciebi,<br />

media, qveynidan gasuli adamianebi, 300000<br />

probacioneri, 1,6 mln ubralo moqalaqe ...<br />

lela iakobiSvili - Tavisufali<br />

sityva, media, ganmanaTlebloba, cnobierebis<br />

ekonomikuri parametrebi evropaSi gaerTianda<br />

e.w. adamianTa uflebebSi. es CvenTan, ratomRac<br />

damoukidebeli organizaciaa. sruliad<br />

araTavsebadi mimarTulebebi gvaqvs im Rirebulebebis<br />

mimarT, romlebsac demokratiuli<br />

sazogadoba atarebs. demokratiuli sazogadoebis<br />

ZiriTadi Rirebuleba aris adamianis<br />

ufleba. mis garSemo ikribeba informaciis<br />

Tavisuflad gadacemis da miRebis ufleba,<br />

ganaTlebis miRebisa da gadacemis ufleba...<br />

es uflebaTa sivrcea da rodesac calkea<br />

media, calkea saganmanaTleblo sivrce,<br />

calkea ekonomika, sadac es yvelaferi erTmaneTs<br />

ver grZnobs.<br />

`obieqtivi~<br />

gazeTi xelmZRvanelobs Tavisufali presis principiT.<br />

SesaZloa, avtoris pozicia ar eTanxmebodes redaqciis azrs.<br />

informaciis sizusteze pasuxismgebelia avtori. gasaCivreba<br />

SesaZlebelia masalis gamoqveynebidan erTi kviris vadaSi.<br />

Semosuli masalebi avtorebs ar ubrundeba.<br />

am niSniT aRniSnulia sareklamo masalebi.

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w. saerTo gazeTi<br />

xelisufleba axali iniciativiT<br />

gamovida _ amieridan vinc<br />

45 wlidan 60 wlamde asakis<br />

moqalaqes miiRebs samsaxurSi,<br />

saSemosavlo gadasaxadis gadaxdisagan<br />

Tavisufldeba.<br />

SesaniSnavi iniciativaa, Tumca<br />

erTi nakli aqvs _ samuSaoze<br />

adamiani rom miiRo, samuSao<br />

adgilebi unda arsebobdes, samu-<br />

Sao adgilebi ki ar aris.<br />

mocemul situaciaSi erTaderTi<br />

`gamosavali~ isaa, rom<br />

45 wlamde asakis TanamSromlebi<br />

gaferTxo da 45 wels zemoT<br />

vincaa, is miiRo.<br />

ar aris gamoricxuli, zogierTi<br />

organizaciis praqtikulad<br />

moazrovne xelmZRvaneli<br />

swored ase moiqces da saSemosavlo<br />

gadasaxadi, romelsac<br />

aqamde sakuTari jibidan ixdida,<br />

dazogos, Tumca aseT SemTxveva-<br />

Si Tavs wamohyofs meore problema<br />

_ sad wavidnen 45 wlamde<br />

gaatareT urigod<br />

`axali memarjveneebis~<br />

liderma daviT gamyreliZem<br />

ganacxada: bi-<br />

Zina ivaniSvilTan rigSi<br />

Cadgomas ar vapirebTo.<br />

hoda, urigod gaatareT,<br />

kaco, Rvawlmosili<br />

partiaa, didi sta-<br />

JiT da namsaxurobis<br />

grZeli CamonaTvaliT.<br />

ase rom, urigod gavataroT,<br />

wina karebidan<br />

Tu ar moxerxdeba, ukana<br />

karebidan SevaparoT.<br />

eseni, es `memarjveneebi~ ukana<br />

karebidan Separvas ufro arian daCveulni.<br />

_ milionis aReba dagvabrales,<br />

milioni ukvirT da miliarderTan<br />

micunculeba ar eTakilebaT _ aSkarad<br />

nawyenia `axlebis~ Tavkaci.<br />

Tavmdablobs batoni gamyreliZe,<br />

Torem am milionamde, rogorc ambo-<br />

ben, sxva milioni iyo, imis iqiT kidev<br />

sxva milioni, sul TavSi ki<br />

`aldagi~ da SevardnaZe, Tavis kaxa<br />

TargamaZesTan erTad.<br />

boroti enebi amboben, rom swored<br />

`memarjveneebis~ ofisSi miitanes<br />

lurji CanTiT is ramdenime mi-<br />

modiT, vicxovroT<br />

morigeobiT...<br />

lioni, romelic arCevnebSi gamarjvebul<br />

politpartiebs da politsubieqtebs<br />

daurigdaT Turme parlamentSi<br />

arSesvlis sazRaurad.<br />

gaxsovT albaT, rogor gulmodgined<br />

aqucmacebdnen makratliT<br />

parlamentaris mandatebs xalxis<br />

mier arCeuli deputatebi _ Cven am<br />

parlamentSi Sesvlas rogor vikadrebTo.<br />

Salva naTelaSvili<br />

gaocebuli<br />

Slida xelebs _<br />

aba, ras viklavdiT<br />

Tavs, Tu parlamentSi<br />

Sesvlas ar vapirebdiTo,<br />

magram<br />

bolos isic danebda<br />

da Tavisi mandati<br />

sul nakuw-nakuw aqcia,<br />

Tumca xelfasis<br />

regularulad<br />

aRebaze uari ar<br />

uTqvams.<br />

parlamentSi rom mkvdruli si-<br />

Cumea da nacumravlesobas yvela sakiTxi<br />

yovelgvari diskusiis gareSe<br />

gaaqvT, es udavod axlebis damsaxurebaa.<br />

aba, aseT xalxs ivaniSvilTan<br />

rigSi Cadgoma ekadrebaT?<br />

ivaniSvilis advokat levins<br />

aeroportSi feradi qvebi CamoarTves<br />

da laboratoriaSi waiRes gasasinjad<br />

_ eWvi gvaqvs, rom am qvebiT<br />

levins radiaqtiuli nivTierebis<br />

Semotana undoda saqarTvelo-<br />

Sio.<br />

laboratoriulma kvlevam daadastura,<br />

rom eWvi usafuZvlo iyo<br />

da axla meore varianti Semoagdes:<br />

_ ivaniSvili Savi magiiTa gatacebuli<br />

da es qvebi albaT, magiuri<br />

ritualebis Casatareblad sWirdeboda.<br />

miliardebi ivaniSvilma Savi<br />

magiis saSualebiT iSovao.<br />

ai, aq ki marTlac `moartyes~<br />

mizanSi Cveni drois Serlok xolmsebma.<br />

rogorc amboben, Ramis saaTebSi,<br />

asakis umuSevrad darCenili<br />

adamianebi?!<br />

sad wavidnen da daelodon<br />

TavianT rigs anu im dros, roca<br />

45 wlisani gaxdebian.<br />

ai, ase, vicxovroT, viarseboT<br />

da viSromoT morigeobiT _<br />

aqamde Tu 45 wlamde asakis<br />

axalgazrdebi `bairamobdnen~,<br />

axla `starikebis~ dro dadga.<br />

saqme isea, rogorc `me, bebia,<br />

iliko da ilarionSi~ wagvikiTxavs<br />

_ Cvenc xom viyaviT am<br />

axalgazrdebis xela? dro rom<br />

gava, isinic xom gaxdebian Cveni<br />

tolebi? hoda, yvelaferi rigzea!<br />

savse mTvareobisas, miujdeba Turme<br />

batoni biZina magidas, Sav sanTlebs<br />

aanTebs aurdaurevs erTmaneTSi ferad<br />

jadosnur qvebs, raRac saidumlo<br />

teqsts waikiTxavs da wkap!<br />

dajdeba ramdenime milioni mis angariSze.<br />

Savi magia<br />

TveSi ramdenjerme imeorebs ivaniSvili<br />

am rituals da ase uSromelad,<br />

muqTad avsebs da avsebs isedac<br />

miliardebiT savse yulabas.<br />

ai, aseT versias gvTavazoben `nacionalebTan~<br />

daaxloebuli Jurnalistebi,<br />

Tanac, paralelurad, mki-<br />

TxavebTan dadian da ivaniSvilis<br />

bed-iRblis garkvevas cdiloben.<br />

xom ar auries am sabraloebma<br />

sabolood da SiSiT Sepyrobilebma<br />

ar ician, ras Cadian.<br />

3

---

4 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

vveessaauubbrreebbiiTT<br />

kkiinnooddookkuummeennttaalliissttss,,<br />

bbaattoonn gia Wubabrias..<br />

_ batono gia, bolo wleb-<br />

Si bevrjer gailanZRa da<br />

augad iqna moxseniebuli qarTveli<br />

inteligencia, xan `wiTlebi~<br />

iyvnen, xan `Carecxilebi~,<br />

magram farTo sazogadoebisTvis<br />

yovelTvis Rirebuli<br />

da saintereso iyo da iqneba<br />

inteligenciis warmomadgenel-<br />

Ta mosazreba ama Tu im movlenaze.<br />

Tqven ra azris xarT biznesmen<br />

biZina ivaniSvilis politikaSi<br />

CarTvis Sesaxeb?<br />

_ aseTi pirovneba, mecenati<br />

saqarTveloSi meore ar aris.<br />

ase farTo masStabis qvelmoqmedebi<br />

arc sarajiSvili da<br />

arc zubalaSvilebi ar yofilan.<br />

ivaniSvilma uamravi ojaxi<br />

gadaarCina.<br />

kaci amden Tanxebs debs<br />

saqveyno saqmeSi da axla urkveven<br />

saidan aqvs. vinme arkvevs<br />

saidan da ra TanxebiT movida<br />

benduqiZe? me, piradad, sura-<br />

Tebi maqvs nanaxi, rogoraa Caxutebuli<br />

putinTan. darwmunebuli<br />

var, rom samxedro qarxnebs<br />

ganagebda, ese igi, kavSirebi<br />

aqvs iseT fenebTan, romelTac<br />

pirdapiri mtroba aqvT<br />

gamocxadebuli saqarTvelos-<br />

Tan. an kidev, aq rom gamdidrdebian<br />

xolme es biznesmenebi,<br />

imaTze kiTxulobs vinme saidan<br />

da rogor?<br />

rodesac qveyanaSi erovnuli<br />

saqmeebi da problemebia<br />

mosagvarebeli da me vxedav,<br />

rom es viRacas ukeTesad SeuZlia,<br />

gzas davuTmob. yvela ase<br />

unda fiqrobdes. pirveloba ar<br />

mWirdeba, Cemze win unda iyos<br />

is, vinc Cemze ukeTaa saqmeSi<br />

Caxeduli. samwuxarod, Cveni,<br />

qarTvelebis yvelaze didi<br />

ubedureba pirvelobis avadmyofobaa.<br />

`sZuls RmerTsa ampartavnoba~,<br />

_ ambobda daviT<br />

guramiSvili.<br />

_ ivaniSvilis erT-erTi<br />

programa ruseTTan urTierTobis<br />

daregulirebaa, Tqven rogor<br />

TvliT, drom moitana amisi<br />

aucilebloba?<br />

_ Cven gvyavda brwyinvale<br />

mefe erekle meore. igi sparseTSi<br />

aRizarda da madloba<br />

RmerTs. rom mokavSired airCia<br />

ruseTi. pirvel rigSi, es imitom<br />

gakeTa, rom winaaRmdeg<br />

cixeSi momxdari buntis<br />

dro dazaralebuli daviT<br />

gaixaraSvilis deda biZina<br />

ivaniSvils mimarTavs<br />

2006 wels<br />

cixeSi momxdari<br />

buntis drosdazaralebuli,<br />

umZimes<br />

mdgomareobaSi<br />

myofi daviT<br />

gaixaraSvilis<br />

deda qeTevan<br />

gigauri biznesmen biZina ivaniSvils Ria mimarTvas<br />

ugzavnis.<br />

,,me, qeTevan gigauri, umZimes mdgomareobaSi<br />

Cavardnili Svilis deda, batono bi-<br />

Zina, mogmarTavT umorCilesad, Tu odesme<br />

rame kargi gagikeTebiaT, amaze kargs ver gaakeTebdiT.<br />

me Tqveni mjera, mwams... gTxovT<br />

SemxvdiT, damelaparakeT, oRond ar momikvdes<br />

Cemi Svili. gemudarebiT, batono biZina<br />

SemxvdiT, sxva gza aRar maqvs, mikvdeba<br />

Svili...batono biZina, Tqvenc xom gyavT<br />

Svilebi, RmerTma didxans gicocxloT. me<br />

SemTxvevaSi, qarTvelebi erTmaneTs<br />

SeWamdnen. mas Zalian<br />

mZime periodSi mouxda mefoba.<br />

ar dagaviwydeT, rom 83 wlisa<br />

iyo da kidev ibrZoda. yvelam<br />

uRalata garSemo. Svilebmac<br />

ki uRalates, maTgan saukeTeso<br />

ki moukles da es isev qarTvelebma<br />

gaakeTes.<br />

stalinmac Tqva, yvelaze<br />

naklebi boroteba saqarTvelosTvis<br />

ruseTTan SeerTeba<br />

iyo. stalinizmisgan Zalian<br />

Sors vdgavar, man gaanadgura<br />

Cemi da kidev bevri brwyinvale<br />

ojaxi, magram is Wkviani kaci<br />

iyo. man msoflio faSizmisgan<br />

gadaarCina. im dRes faSizmis<br />

damarcxeba warmoudgeneli<br />

iyo, amisi ardanaxva ar SeiZleba.<br />

ivaniSvili ambobs, `unda<br />

daregulirdes ruseTTan ur-<br />

TierToba, es uZlieresi qveyanaa<br />

Tavisi minusebiTa da pliusebiT.<br />

saerTod, urTierTobebis<br />

daregulireba yovelTvis<br />

yvelasTan unda scado. sarwmuno<br />

wyaroebidan vici, rom ar-<br />

Zinbas uTqvams qarTvelebisTvis,<br />

davsxdeT da vilaparako-<br />

To, qarTvelebma es Turme ar<br />

ikadres. maSin me ruseTs mivmarTavo<br />

da daiwyo is ubedurba,<br />

rac dRemde grZeldeba.<br />

_ anu, Tqven miesalmebiT im<br />

faqts, rom ivaniSvilma politikaSi<br />

mosvla gadawyvita da<br />

TvliT, rom qveynisTvis es<br />

momgebiani iqneba...<br />

_ ra Tqma unda. gamoCnda bi-<br />

Zina ivaniSvili, mis<br />

Semdeg SeiZleba,<br />

viRac kidev ukeTesi<br />

gamoCndes. mas<br />

unda miesalmo da<br />

ara RvarZli anTxio,<br />

miTumetes,<br />

rom patara eri<br />

varT. magram qarTvelebs<br />

ase sCveviaT<br />

_ erTmaneTs anadgureben.<br />

dRemde feodalebad<br />

davrCiT.<br />

kacma ramdenime aTeuli kvadratuli<br />

miwis gulisTvis mamis,<br />

dis da disSvilis mokvla gadawyvita,<br />

aseTi ram warmoudgenelia.<br />

qarTvelTa umetesoba<br />

arafers gascems saxelmwifosTvis,<br />

piriqiT, mudam mzadaa Zarcvos<br />

qveyana. mere es ZeglebTan<br />

da mkvdrebTan brZola raRa<br />

ubedurebaa. stalinis deda unda<br />

amovTxaroT saflavidano. es<br />

ra kacobaa. an Tundac stalinis<br />

Zegli rom gadaitanes, Tu vaJkaci<br />

xar, aseTebs cocxlebs ebrZole.<br />

es sisulelea, mdabali<br />

xalxis fsiqologiaa.<br />

iseTi pirovnebis<br />

gamoCenas, rogoric<br />

biZina ivaniSvilia,<br />

yvelasTvis misasalmebeli<br />

unda iyos,<br />

prezidentisTvisac<br />

ki. gverdiT unda daiyenos<br />

es kaci, bevrs<br />

moigebs. unda SevikraT,<br />

gavufrTxildeT<br />

Cvens marTlac RvTismSoblis<br />

wilxvedr<br />

qveyanas,<br />

xom xedavT, ra xdeba sxvagan,<br />

rogori kataklizmebia,<br />

tornadoebi, cunamebi. Cven<br />

madloba RmerTs, aseTi ram<br />

ar gvemuqreba. sxvagan xalxi<br />

ocnebobs, netavi raimem ixaroso.<br />

cimbirSi rom vmuSaobdi,<br />

iq Cemma kolegebma mTxoves,<br />

erTi yvavili gamogvigzavneT,<br />

me veubnebi, qoTanSi<br />

Carguls gamogigzavniT-meTqi.<br />

ara, yvavilis furceli gamogvigzavneo;<br />

asea mowyurebuli<br />

es xalxi imas, rasac Cven<br />

RmerTi siniT gvaZlevs. unda<br />

gaviTvaliswinoT, rom globalizaciaa,<br />

aqve Cems saxlTan<br />

Turqi iSenebs saxls, Zalian<br />

cudi demografiuli mdgoma-<br />

`Wkviani erebi mtersac<br />

ki saTavisod iyeneben,<br />

Cven ki Cvens Tavdadebul<br />

patriotebs vebrZviT?~<br />

es erTi Svili damrCa, gTxovT gadamirCineT.<br />

RmerTi Tqven giSveliT. aucileblad<br />

RmerTi dagifaravT, daTos daxmarebisTvis.<br />

arafers gTxovT sxvas, SemxvdiT... minda Cemi<br />

mdgomareoba agixsnaT. mikvdeba Svili da<br />

aravin hyavs patroni”- aRniSnulia qeTevan<br />

gigauris mimarTvaSi.<br />

mimarTvaSi qeTevan gigauri wers, rom<br />

man damxarebisTvis jandacvis saministrosac<br />

mimarTa.<br />

,,ar gegonoT, rom ar mivmarTe jandacvis<br />

saministros, yvelas mivmarTe dasaxmareblad.<br />

miTumetes, Cemi Svili saxelmwifosganaa<br />

dazaralebuli – yofili sportsmeni,<br />

mas sicocxle unda... axalgazrdaa.<br />

batono biZina, daTos es saSineleba cixeSi<br />

damarTes. 2006 wels, e.w. buntis dros.<br />

daainvalides, daamtvries, loginidan veRar<br />

dgeba. Zalian mZimed aris ukve... aravin maqcevs<br />

yuradRebas... iZulebuli gavxdi, Tqven<br />

SegawuxoT. kidev erTxel gTxovT gamwarebuli<br />

deda. sul xuT wuTs wagarTmevT,<br />

mets - ara. es Cemi vedreba miiReT da Rmer-<br />

Ti giSveliT Tqven da Tqvens Svilebs”- aRniSnulia<br />

mimarTvaSi.<br />

irakli alasania<br />

burjanaZesTan politikur<br />

erTobas gamoricxavs<br />

partia ,,Tavisufali<br />

demokratebis” lideri<br />

irakli alasania<br />

`demokratiuli moZraobis~<br />

lider nino<br />

burjanaZesTan politikur<br />

erTobas gamoricxavs.<br />

misi TqmiT, is ver<br />

iqneba politikur er-<br />

TobaSi iseT partiebTan, romlebic iyvnen<br />

da rCebian radikaluri cvlilebebis moxre.<br />

,,urTierTobas ar gamovricxav, bunebrivia.<br />

me ar vyof Cems qveyanas da mosaxleobas<br />

viRacis mxardamWerebad da viRacis mowinaRmdegeebad.<br />

es aris yvelas qveyana, qalbatoni<br />

burjanaZisac, Cemic da Tqvenic. magram<br />

es sul sxva Temaa da politikuri er-<br />

Toba da erT Zalad Camoyalibeba sxva Temaa,<br />

romelic gamoricxulia”, _ ganacxada<br />

alasaniam.<br />

`medianiusi~<br />

reoba gvaqvs. msoflioSi realurad<br />

dgas musulmanuri<br />

saSiSroeba. adre xmliT vicavdiT<br />

maTgan Tavs, axla Tanamedrove<br />

meTodebiT Semodian,<br />

amas globalizacia uwyobs<br />

xels. tolernatoba kargia,<br />

magram zedmeti araferi varga.<br />

ivaniSvili pasuxismgeblobas<br />

grZnobs qveynis winaSe da<br />

unda mieces saSualeba, rom<br />

imoqmedos. cota miamitic<br />

aris xasiaTiT, es gamoixateba<br />

pirdapirobaSi, magram faqtia,<br />

rom qveynis gadarCenis<br />

survili amoZravebs. RmerTma<br />

kidev erTxel gamogviwoda<br />

gadarCenis xeli da gamoviyenoT.<br />

Wkviani erebi mtrebs<br />

iyeneben, Cven sakuTar patriotebs<br />

da keTilmosurneebs<br />

ver viyenebT.<br />

Wkviani kacis naTqvami<br />

sityva minda gavigono am qveyanaSi.<br />

ivaniSvili Wkviania da<br />

mivceT saSualeba, Wkua qveynis<br />

sasargeblod gamoiyenos.<br />

Tamuna qadagiZe

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

pirvel noembers pirvelad<br />

vnaxe (davesesxebi im viRac maimunebis<br />

arxis xelmZRvanels)<br />

amdeni `gawvrTnili maimuni~ er-<br />

Tad. ra Tqma unda, iq gauwvrTneli<br />

maimunebic iyvnen da Jurnalistebic,<br />

magram wvrTna Tavisas<br />

Svreba, gawvrTnilma maimunebma<br />

ise imaimunes, gadafares<br />

danarCenebis arseboba Tavyrilobaze,<br />

romelsac ratomRac<br />

preskonferencia erqva. iseTi<br />

STabeWdileba darCeboda ucxo<br />

Tvals, TiTqos erTi didi volieris<br />

win ijda biZina ivaniSvili<br />

da erToboda imis yurebiT,<br />

rogor stacebdnen erTmaneTs<br />

banan-mikrofons maimunebi,<br />

an rogor umalavda erTi maTgani<br />

danarCenebs, an rogor ver<br />

arTmevdnen igive `xils~ imas,<br />

romelic xelSi Caigdebda _ es<br />

ra vnaxe!<br />

amdeni dRe gavida da axlac<br />

yurSi Camesmis erT-erTi `maimunTsaSenis~<br />

xelmZRvanelis es<br />

fraza `gawvrTnili maimunebi~,<br />

im xelmZRvanelisa, romelic<br />

ver vxvdeba, rom TviTonac gawvrTnili<br />

maimunia, swored imgvari,<br />

rogoric patara caxes cinoberi<br />

iyo, hofmanis nawarmoebis<br />

personaJi;<br />

amdeni dRe gavida `mwvane<br />

saxlSi~ gamarTuli preskonferenciidan<br />

da `gawvrTnili maimunebis~<br />

Semxedvares Tan mdevs<br />

batoni Wabuas mier daTa Tu-<br />

TaSxias piriT naTqvami sityvebi:<br />

`vin xarT, Tqve ubedurebo,<br />

ra jiSis xarT! ra giyoT da<br />

ras dagamsgavsaT mamaZaRlma abela<br />

seTurma da, ager, mosaspobma<br />

Tabagarma, ar fiqrobT?! ver<br />

xedavT amas?!~<br />

rac biZina ivaniSvili sayovelTao<br />

yuradRebis centrSi<br />

aRmoCnda da masTan interviu Tu<br />

intervius msgavsi `baasi~ mavan-<br />

TaTvis sanukvar ocnebad iqca<br />

sxvadasxva mizeziT, kaci ixveweba,<br />

is mkiTxeT, rac sazogadoebas<br />

ainteresebs, rac piradad<br />

Tqven gainteresebT, nu mekiTxebiT<br />

imas, rac Tqvens gamomgzavnebs<br />

ainteresebTo, magram ver<br />

Seasmina veravis. igives imeorebda<br />

im dResac, Tan im `bananis~<br />

taciaobas wuxda, pativi eciT<br />

Tqvens profesias, pativi eciT<br />

Tqvens kolegebso, mouwodebda<br />

friad gaaqtiurebulebs. amaod<br />

irjeboda maspinZeli, radgan<br />

aranair mowodebas ar ZaluZs<br />

daSoSminos aboJirebuli volieri,<br />

radgan aranair caxess ar<br />

SeuZlia, ragind gawvrTnili<br />

iyos, damalos adamianuri Sesamoselidan<br />

gamomzirali primatis<br />

sulis triali...<br />

ra Tqma unda, adamianebi, e.w<br />

Jurnalistebi Tu maRali rangis<br />

Tanamdebobis pirebi verafriT<br />

mixvdebian, ras vambob, `naxe,<br />

kolegebs sul maimunebi<br />

uwodao~, damwameben. vinc amgvarad<br />

ifiqrebs, maT gasagonad kidev<br />

erTxel vimeoreb, es sityvebi<br />

me ar miTqvams, Tqvenma<br />

xelmZRvanelma, ase vTqvaT, `ma-<br />

imunuri saqmianobis~ mimarTulebis<br />

gezis momcemma Tqva da<br />

albaT, icoda kidec, rasac ambobda.<br />

diax, Jurnalisti, romelic<br />

dRes elene axvledianis<br />

mobiluris nomers daeZebs mas-<br />

Tan intervius Casawerad, maRali<br />

Tanamdebobis piri ki akakis<br />

saxl-muzeumSi TaiguliT xel-<br />

Si akakis saflavs daeZebs, ragind<br />

mravalgzis ganumarto<br />

darvinis Teoria, sapirispiros<br />

dagimtkicebs.<br />

diax, piradad me, im dRis<br />

Semdeg imdenad SeZruli var<br />

qarTuli Jurnalistikis degeneraciiT,<br />

rom darvinsRa mivmar-<br />

Tav: `ser Carlz, Tqven mwared<br />

SecdiT _ adamianisgan warmoiSva<br />

maimuni~...<br />

26 maisis aqciis darbevamde,<br />

maxsovs, calkeuli politikuri<br />

saxeebi Jurnalistebis akreditaciis<br />

sakiTxsac ki ayenebdnen<br />

aqciaze dasaswrebad, maSin iTqva<br />

`pagoniani Jurnalistebis~<br />

Sesaxeb Riad da Seulamazeblad.<br />

mere ki, TviT 26 maisis<br />

darbevis dros Jurnalistebis<br />

mimarT aSkara gamoxatuli agresia<br />

rom vixile sakuTari TvaliT,<br />

amjerad xelisuflebis<br />

mxridan, manamde Tu aqciis monawileebisgan<br />

dafarulad mqonda<br />

Jurnalistis mowmoba, axla<br />

mis moSorebaze vfiqrobdi, am<br />

cxovelebma es rom naxon, uaresad<br />

gadairevian-Tqo.<br />

stresma rom gadamiara, vambobdi,<br />

ra Sari gamixda es mowmoba,<br />

orive mxares vumalavdi-<br />

Tqo. gasagebia, xalxi gaRizianebulia<br />

imiT, rom televiziebi<br />

araobieqturad aSuqeben qveyana-<br />

Si mimdinare movlenebs, magram<br />

sakuTar televiziebSi Tu undaT,<br />

sulac Tavdayira ivlian,<br />

`ar mogwons? _ gadarTe!~ xom<br />

xedaven, asea dayenebuli sakiTxi-Tqo,<br />

vamarTlebdi Cems<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

kolegebs. erTma asakovanma qalma<br />

miTxra, Svilo, RmerTma dagifaros,<br />

magram jer kidev sisxlmdinari<br />

mokluli Svili rom<br />

win gesvenis da Seni kolegebi<br />

naxevarwuTiani eTerisTvis, ise<br />

rom, srulebiT ar ainteresebT,<br />

Svili mogikles Tu qaTami, mikrofons<br />

gCridnen pirSi, eWvi<br />

visze gaqvso da ukan dagedevnon<br />

jgrod, ra ganwyoba dageuflebao?<br />

_ gavCumdi. Semzara...<br />

ukve (didi xania) naTelia,<br />

rom mikrofoni banani yofila<br />

mravalTaTvis (rogorc, vTqvaT,<br />

momRerali maimunebisTvis), magram<br />

Wamis (ara mxolod sakvebisas)<br />

survilis dakmayofilebis<br />

dauokebel grZnobas sadamde<br />

mihyavs adamiani, esec me unda<br />

vTqva? `biZia-babuasi~ ar iyos<br />

`Serekilebidan~, ras gaswavlidnen,<br />

Tqve ubedurebo, skolaSi...<br />

nebismier gamvlels rom<br />

hkiTxoT, pirveli uZvelesi<br />

profesia ra ariso, daufiqreblad<br />

gipasuxebs, rom meZavobaa.<br />

rom CaeZio, meoreo? _ Tvalebs<br />

aafaxulebs, tuCebs aSkvers da<br />

cas axedavs, iqneb pasuxi STamegonoso.<br />

nu hkiTxavT nebismier<br />

gamvlels, im JurnalistebisTvis<br />

unda gekiTxaT, (romelTa<br />

zusti raodenoba verafriT davadgine,<br />

170? 233?) mTawmindis<br />

`mwvane saxlidan~ rom gamovidnen,<br />

ggoniaT, sxva suraTs mii-<br />

RebdiT? _ meZavobis Tqmaze isinic<br />

ar Seyovndebodnen, meore<br />

profesiaze ki, gamvlelebisgan<br />

gansxvavebiT, yurebs aafaxulebdnen,<br />

egeb TviTon wamoscdes da<br />

davimaxsovroo.<br />

ras vizamT, roca dRevandel<br />

zogierT e.w Jurnalists hgonia,<br />

rom Jurnalistika me-20 saukunis<br />

pirmSoa, (mas Semdeg gaCnda,<br />

rac televizori gamoCnda)<br />

ukeTes SemTxvevaSi XIX saukunis,<br />

kidev ukeTes SemTxvevaSi<br />

XVII-XVIII saukuneebis, _ Jurnalistma<br />

mxolod wera-kiTxva<br />

rom icis da `sxvagan hqris misi<br />

goneba~, amis bralia es. banani-mikrofoni<br />

da misgan miRebuli<br />

kuWis moTxovnilebis dakmayofilebis<br />

grZnoba arasdros<br />

gascems im kiTxvaze pasuxs, romelia<br />

uZvelesi profesia meZavobis<br />

Semdeg. am kiTxvaze rom<br />

pasuxi gasces Jurnalistma,<br />

jer is unda icodes, ra gansx-<br />

vavebaa papirossa da papiruss<br />

Soris, mere is, ra iwereboda<br />

papirusebze da romel aTaswleulebSi.<br />

(is ar unda ikiTxos,<br />

romel wlebSio) teleJurnalistma<br />

is mainc unda icodes,<br />

rom Jurnalistika televiziiT<br />

ar iwyeba, televiziiT tele-<br />

Jurnalistikas Caeyara safuZveli,<br />

rom termini `Jurnalistika~<br />

mxolod konkretuli azris<br />

Semcveli iyo, aRniSnavda gazeTs,<br />

dRiurs da ara im erTobliobas,<br />

romlis mravalferovani<br />

saxec dRes gvaqvs...<br />

arsad weria SaviT TeTrze,<br />

rogori unda iyos Jurnalisti,<br />

magram arc is weria sadme, rom<br />

Jurnalisti Tavxedi, uzrdeli,<br />

ukulturo, matyuara da eSmakze<br />

sulmiyiduli unda iyos...<br />

arc is weria sadme, rom<br />

radgan uZveles profesiaTagan<br />

saerTo gazeTi<br />

gawvrTnili maimunebi da<br />

banani, saxelad mikrofoni<br />

pirveli meZavobaa da meore<br />

Jurnalistoba, pirovnebaSic<br />

pirvel-meore adgilebze (pirdapir<br />

Tu gadataniTi mniSvnelobiT)<br />

unda gadanawildes.<br />

rodesac Jurnalisti (`presa.ge~)<br />

<strong>gamodis</strong> `mwvane saxlSi~<br />

gamarTuli preskonferenciidan<br />

da ambobs, biZina ivaniSvili<br />

preskonferenciaze tyviagaumtari<br />

SuSis miRma ijdao, gaxevdebi<br />

Tundac imitom, rom baton<br />

merab beraZis SesaZleblobebi<br />

gagaognebs, rogor daubrkoleblad<br />

gavida `tyviagaumtar~ Su-<br />

SaSi, _ aseTi saocari tyuilis<br />

daxeTqeba sakuTari Tavis daxeTqeba<br />

rom aris, amas rom e.w<br />

Jurnalisti ver mixvdeba da<br />

xels moawers amaze, romeli<br />

uZvelesi profesiis mimdevaria,<br />

netav, misma patronma (Tu hyavs)<br />

mainc Tu icis, Torem TviTon<br />

rom ar icodes, verc moxvdeboda<br />

iq.<br />

TviT is faqti, rom `ase nanatri~<br />

preskonferenciis Catarebis<br />

Semdeg Jurnalistebis<br />

qcevis sakiTxi gaxda mniSvnelovani<br />

da ara is, ra Tqva kacma,<br />

vis gamoc Tavi daiviwya araerTma<br />

mdedrma Tu mamrma, mxolod<br />

imis amsaxvelia, ra qaosicaa<br />

isedac gaorpirqarebuli<br />

xelisuflebis TavSi misi gamo-<br />

CenisTanave. amas garda, aris meorec,<br />

e.w Jurnalistebi ise gaiWaWnen<br />

ivaniSvilisTvis niRbis<br />

Camosaxsnelad e.w `CamWreli<br />

kiTxvebis arsenaliT~ SeiaraRebulebi,<br />

rom gauazreblad saku-<br />

Tar marCenals eZgernen da ise<br />

Camoaglijes niRabi, zogs saxis<br />

kanic gahyva Tbil qveynebSi gadafrenil<br />

mercxlebTan erTad<br />

(mercxlis, beRurebisa da pingvinis<br />

`Tema~ xom ukve fsiqopa-<br />

Tobis donemde davida Tu avida).<br />

socialur qselSi gavrcelda,<br />

im dRes qarTuli Jurnalistika<br />

dasamarda da droulad<br />

unda gaasvenono, _ ara, batonebo,<br />

qarTul Jurnalistikas araferi<br />

sWirs gasasvenebeli, ubralod,<br />

saxelisuflebo e.w Jurnalisturi<br />

nagavia gasatani,<br />

bevri dagrovda, daxvavda da<br />

isic iseve yars, rogorc maTi<br />

mama-marCenalis dorbliani piri...<br />

maia WeliZe<br />

5

---

6 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

mas Semdeg, rac saqrTvelos<br />

ruseTume prezidentma winandal-<br />

Si iqeifa, icekva da sul `kalinka~<br />

da `ex, darogi~ imRera,<br />

SegviZlia kategoriulad moviTxovoT:<br />

daabruneT rusuli<br />

simRerebi qarTul restornebSi!<br />

saqme is gaxlavT, rom SabaTs<br />

winandalSi rusi reJisoris, putinis<br />

Zma da megobris, nikita<br />

mixalkovis qaliSvilis qorwili<br />

gaimarTa. siZe qarTveli re-<br />

Jisoria. sakuTar qorwilSi vin<br />

rogor moilxens, ra Cveni saqmea.<br />

Cven is vikiTxoT, sakuTari<br />

prezidenti ratom daiareba qorwil-qorwil<br />

da Rvinisagan saxedafiJvinebuli<br />

ratom poziorobs<br />

fotokamerebis win, TiTqos<br />

Zalian saamayo saqmeze iyos<br />

Casuli winandalSi? isic vikiTxoT,<br />

Tu paata burWulaZisTvis<br />

moskovSi simRera samSoblos<br />

Ralatia, ra hqvia ucxo da erT<br />

dros `persona non gratad~ gamocxadebuli<br />

kacis qorwilSi<br />

kuntruSs? da saerTodac, Tu<br />

xelisuflebisTvis nebadarTulia<br />

cnobil rus saxeebTan gar-<br />

Toba, ratom aris CvenTvis akr-<br />

Zaluli saqmiani urTierTobebic<br />

ki? da bolos, am xelisuflebas<br />

saerTod namusi aqvs da ramis<br />

cxvenia?<br />

ise, msgavsi ritorikuli<br />

kiTxva bolo namdvilad ver iqneba<br />

da Tu ratom, amas qveviT<br />

vnaxavT.<br />

saSiSi vaqcina<br />

naxevrad gayidul da gasayidad<br />

gamzadebul bavSvTa poliklinikebSi<br />

sagangaSo ambavi gavrcelda.<br />

eqimebs treningebi Cautares<br />

da gaafrTxiles, rom mi-<br />

Rebulia axli vaqcina yivanaxvela,<br />

difteriisa da wiTelasTvis,<br />

romelic CexeTidan Semoi-<br />

tanes. jandacvis saerTaSoriso<br />

organizaciam am preparats licenzia<br />

ar mianiWa. wamlis legitimaciisaTvis<br />

saqarTvelos xelisuflebam<br />

adgilze moaxdina<br />

vaqcinis licenzireba da poliklinikebSi<br />

ise Seitana. am<br />

acras ufasod akeTeben,<br />

oRond eqimebi mSoblebs<br />

afrTxileben, rom saSi-<br />

Sia patarebisTvis, visac<br />

ZaRlis bewvze alergia<br />

aqvs. rogor unda mixvdes<br />

deda, axalSobils alergia<br />

raze aqvs, Zneli gasarkvevia.<br />

mTavaria, rom<br />

poliklinikebs parale-<br />

lurad aqvT xarisxiani wamali,<br />

romelic 38 lari Rirs da<br />

mSoblebs araoficialurad afr-<br />

Txileben, Tu Zalian ar giWirT,<br />

nu gariskavT, isev fasiani acra<br />

gaukeTeTo. Catarda Tu ara tenderi<br />

Cexuri vaqcinis Semotana-<br />

ze, ramdeni daixarja biujetidan,<br />

an vin gariska aralicenzirebuli<br />

vaqcinis Semotana, saxelmwifo<br />

saidumloebad rCeba.<br />

saidumloa isic, Tu visi biznesia<br />

vaqcinebis Semotana da vin<br />

iSova fuli uvargisi wamlis<br />

realizebiT. SarSan poliklinikebi<br />

100-140 larad hyiddnen<br />

sxvadasxva warmoebis analogiur<br />

vaqcinebs. maSin jandacvis centri<br />

amtkicebda, rom saqarTvelo-<br />

Si fasiani vaqcina ar arsebobs<br />

da es saqme ver iqneba kerZo biznesis<br />

obieqti. am gancxadebebis<br />

miuxedavad, bavSvebi isev fulis<br />

Sovnis obieqtad rCebian da Tanac<br />

Zalian sarisko TamaSSi arian<br />

moxvedrilebi, ise, rom amis<br />

Sesaxeb xSirad mSoblebmac araferi<br />

ician.<br />

kidev erTi<br />

mamali tyuili<br />

Semdegi saxelisuflebo afera<br />

axal salaro aparatebs<br />

Seexeba. sagadasaxado samsaxuris<br />

ofisebSi misul biznesmenebs<br />

didi, magram kargad nacnobi<br />

siurprizi xvdebaT: ufaso<br />

qveyanaze araferia, gadaixadeT<br />

306 lari. es sagadasaxados<br />

moTxovnaa. im sagadasaxadosi,<br />

romlis yofili Sefi<br />

erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi<br />

gvmoZRvravda, rom axal salaro<br />

aparatebs mewarmeebisTvis<br />

saxelmwifo SeiZenda. rogorc<br />

sazogadoebisaTvis aris cnobili,<br />

axali salaro aparati<br />

GPRS sistemazea mierTebuli da<br />

obieqtis mflobels Tavisuflad<br />

SeuZlia, sakuTari maRazia<br />

an obieqti akontrolos. am sistemis<br />

saSualebiT sagadasaxado<br />

inspeqtoric onlain-reJimSi xedavs<br />

da akontrolebs, Tu rogor<br />

mimdinareobs sagadasaxado<br />

angariSsworeba.<br />

rogorc oficialurad acxadeben,<br />

Semosavlebis samsaxursa<br />

da kompania Daisy Technology-s<br />

Soris xelmowerili xelSekrulebiT,<br />

SeZenilia 100 000 cali<br />

salaro aparati. maTi SeZena 13<br />

300 000 dolari dajda. nawyveti<br />

sagadasaxado samsaxuris<br />

SarSandeli informaciidan: `salaro<br />

aparats 3 <strong>weli</strong> eqneba garantia<br />

da is ufasod gadaecema<br />

im mewarmeebs, visi biznesic 250<br />

000 laris brunvas ar aRemateba,<br />

xolo im mewarmes, romlis<br />

biznesis brunva am Tanxaze metia,<br />

finansTa saministros Tavdapirveli<br />

dapirebis miuxedavad,<br />

salaro aparatis SeZena mouwevs.<br />

aparati 300 lari Rirs~.<br />

calsaxad SegviZlia vTqvaT,<br />

rom mTavrobam mewarmeebisTvis<br />

micemuli piroba kidev erTxel<br />

daarRvia da komerciuli interesiT<br />

moqmedeba daiwyo. `fuli,<br />

babaia, fuli!~ _ am xelisuflebis<br />

maradiuli devizia. Tu gaviTvaliswinebT,<br />

rom dRevandeli<br />

mdgomareobiT, oficialur<br />

reestrSi 355 aTasi subieqtia<br />

aRricxuli, unda vikiTxoT, rogor<br />

apirebda Semosavlebis samsaxuri<br />

100 000 salaro aparatis<br />

ganawilebas? SeuZlebeli<br />

iyo, 250 000 larze naklebi<br />

brunva mxolod 100 000 mewarmes<br />

hqonoda. hoda, sagadasaxdomac<br />

martivi gamosavali ipova:<br />

iyidos iman, visac fuli aqvs.<br />

marTalia, oficialurad amas<br />

aravin adasturebs, magram yvela<br />

mewarme fiqrobs, rom Zveli apa-<br />

ratebis moqmedebis vada wlis<br />

bolos amoiwureba, anu wlis<br />

bolomde axali salaro aparatebi,<br />

mTeli saqarTvelos masStabiT,<br />

yvela savaWro obieqtSi<br />

unda daidgas. vinc ver moaxerxebs<br />

SeZenas, bunebrivia, solidurad<br />

dajarimdeba. arada, Zalian<br />

bevria iseTi mcire mewarme,<br />

vinc wlis dasawyisSi Zlivs moaxerxa<br />

salaro aparatis SeZena<br />

da axla sagadasaxado isev<br />

Txovs, oTusbirad SeiZinos axali<br />

aparatebi. isic sakiTxavia,<br />

290 larad Rirebul nivTs ratom<br />

yidis saxelmwifo 306 larad<br />

da vis jibeSi midis is 16<br />

lari?<br />

papapa, ra SeRavaTebia!<br />

mogexsenebaT, prezidenti bi-<br />

Zina ivaniSvilis gamoCenam ise<br />

aSala, rom dapirebas dapirebaze<br />

iZleva da iseT Tamasuqebs arigebs,<br />

sulsa da guls uxaria. am-<br />

Jamad, miSas didi sazrunavi is<br />

Suaxnis xalxia, vinc Tavis<br />

droze TviTon moisrola drois<br />

prezidentis rusuli qeifi,<br />

akrZaluli vaqcina bavSvebisTvis<br />

da sagadasaxados kidev erTi<br />

tyuili, anu rogor viSovoT<br />

fuli mosaxleobis xarjze?<br />

sanagveze da faqtobrivad, saqmianobis<br />

ufleba aukrZala. rogorc<br />

Cans, prezidentma, zurikelasaviT<br />

igrZno, rom es misi<br />

yvelaze seriozuli `garRvevaa~<br />

da amis gamosasworeblad axali<br />

Tamasuqi isrola: kompania, romelic<br />

45-60 wlis moqalaqes<br />

daasaqmebs, gaTavisufldeba saSemosavlo<br />

gadasaxadisgan. ex, mi-<br />

Sa, miSa, egre dawvrilmanebac ar<br />

Rirs. sad unda daasaqmon, roca<br />

samuSao adgilebis deficitia<br />

da Tanac am gadasaxads biznesi<br />

ki ara Cven, moqalaqeebi vixdiT<br />

sakuTari xelfasidan, anu saku-<br />

Tari jibidan.<br />

2007 wels, ori gadasaxadi<br />

- saSemosavlo da sacialuri gaerTianda.<br />

Tu adre daqiravebuli<br />

xelfasidan saxelmwifo biujetSi<br />

saSemosavlo gadasaxadis<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

saxiT 12%-s ixdida, damqiravebeli<br />

ki socialuri gadasaxadis<br />

saxiT 20%-s, cvlilebebis Semdeg,<br />

am ori gadasaxadis gadamxdeli<br />

mxolod daqiravebuli<br />

gaxda da xelfasis 25%-is gadaxda<br />

daekisra. es drakonuli<br />

gadawyvetileba maSin swored<br />

damsaqmeblis, anu potenciuri<br />

investoris gulis mosagebad miiRes<br />

da gadasaxadis mTeli sim-<br />

Zime daqiravebuls daakisres.<br />

erTi sityviT, xelisuflebam sakuTari<br />

cxovreba Cvens xarjze<br />

aiwyo. dRes ki ratom cdiloben<br />

amis gamosworebas, yvela kargad<br />

xedavs.<br />

es iniciativac rom blefia<br />

da araferi aqvs saerTo realobasTan,<br />

amaze yvela biznesmeni,<br />

sxvaTa Soris, Riad laparakobs.<br />

maTi zogadi komentari aseTia:<br />

skeptikurad vuyureb am iniciativas,<br />

radgan ara mgonia, aman<br />

vinmes rame SeRavaTi moutanos.<br />

Tu axali samuSao adgilebi ar<br />

Seiqmna, bazari ar gaizarda, ra<br />

Seicvleba? ra, Zvelebi unda gauSvan<br />

da Suaxnis xalxi miiRon?<br />

es iniciativa gaamarTlebs maSin,<br />

Tu ekonomikaSi realurad momentaluri<br />

zrda wava~.<br />

ufro kategoriulia irakli<br />

petriaSvili, gaerTianebuli<br />

profkavSirebis xelmZRvaneli:<br />

_ CvenSi asaki namdvilad ganmsazRvrelia,<br />

diskriminaciulad<br />

ganmsazRvrelic. xSirad adamianebs<br />

dasaqmebaze uars eubnebian<br />

asakis gamo. damlageblis vakansiebic<br />

ki 20-25 wlamde aris.<br />

Zalian zogadi gancxadebaa da<br />

rogoria misi qveteqstebi, ar<br />

viciT. miT ufro, ganmarteba gaakeTes,<br />

rom es xalxi sam-sami<br />

TviT dasaqmdebian. xom ar gaxdeba<br />

es iniciativa sababi imisTvis,<br />

rom axalgazrdebi daiTxovon, an<br />

kadrebi maqsimalurad gadaiyvanon<br />

samTvian xelSekrulebebze?<br />

iqneb isic moxdes, rom asakovani<br />

TanamSromelebi saxlSi gauSvan<br />

da mere xelaxla aiyvanon.<br />

gasagebia, rom gvinda xalxis dasaqmeba,<br />

Tanac yvelaze ganawyenebuli<br />

fenis, magram ramdenad iqneba<br />

es iniciativa gadamwyveti,<br />

Zneli saTqmelia.<br />

p.s. kidev erTi mniSvnelovani<br />

sircxvili gasuli kviris<br />

samTavrobo sisuleleebidan: saqarTvelo,<br />

`principuli da Seuqcevadi~<br />

poziciis miuxedavad,<br />

daTanxmda ruseTis saerTaSoriso<br />

organizaciaSi gawevrianebas.<br />

gaiJRera, rom monitorings<br />

sazRvrebze ara saerTaSoriso<br />

organizaciebi, aramed, kerZo pirebi<br />

ganaxorcieleben. agaSenaT<br />

RmerTma, fulis Sovnis kidev<br />

erTi wyaro da isic rusebTan<br />

erTad. verafers ityvi, ician bi-<br />

Webma fulis keTeba patriotulad<br />

da samSoblos xarjze!<br />

manana gegiZe

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

,,saerTo gazeTis~ stumaria<br />

politologi ramaz sayvareliZe:<br />

_ batono ramaz, biZina ivaniSvilis<br />

preskonferencias feierverki<br />

uwodeT. ra gaZlevT<br />

amis Tqmis safuZvels?<br />

_ feirverki vuwode ara<br />

mxolod biZina ivaniSvilis gamosvlas,<br />

aramed mTlianad iq<br />

Seqmnil mdgomareobas. situacia<br />

atarebda ara preskonferenciis,<br />

aramed politikuri duelis<br />

iers xelisuflebasa da ivaaniSvils<br />

Soris. xelisuflebis pozicia<br />

samTavrobo mediis Jurnalistebi<br />

axovanebdnen. TiTqmis<br />

yvela qveyanSi arsebobs mediis<br />

garkveuli jgufi, romelic garkveul<br />

politikur ZalebTan<br />

asocirdeba da maTi interesebis<br />

gamtarebelia. romelime politikur<br />

segmentTan dakavSirebuili<br />

Jurnalistebi, rogorc wesi,<br />

mxolod romantiulad ar arian<br />

maTTan mierTebuli. mediis warmomadgenlebi<br />

politikuri elitisgan<br />

sxvadasxva saxis davalebebs<br />

Rebuloben, romelic politikosebis<br />

strategias emsaxureba.<br />

CemTvis yvelaze ufro metad<br />

saintereso iyo Tu ra strategia<br />

hqonda xelisuflebas, xolo,<br />

meore mxriv, ra sapasuxo<br />

manevrebs Caatarebda ivaniSvili<br />

imis gaTvaliswinebiT, rom kiTxvebic<br />

da pasuxebic metnaklebad<br />

momzadebuli iyo.<br />

_ Tqveni azriT, ra strartegia<br />

aqvs xelisuflebas?<br />

_ jerjerobiT, xelisuflebis<br />

strategiad kvlav rCeba rusul<br />

Temaze apelireba. aRarafers<br />

vambob, beRurebze, pingvinebsa<br />

da mercxlebze.<br />

_ relurad, visi feirverki<br />

iyo saxelisuflebo mediis Tu<br />

ivaniSvilis?<br />

_ ra Tqma unda, es iyo biZina<br />

ivaniSvilis feierverki. politikur<br />

duelSi, Cemda gasakvirad,<br />

ivaniSvilma sakmaod kargad<br />

imuSava. imis gaTvaliswinebiT,<br />

rom nino JiJilaSvilTan<br />

micemul interviuSi emociuri<br />

reaqcia im nawilSi gamoavlina,<br />

sadac ar unda gamoexata. yvelas<br />

gasakvirad, ivaniSvilma mSvidad,GRimil-sicilSi<br />

Caatara<br />

preskonferencia, magram, praqtikulad,<br />

arc erTi pozicia ar<br />

daTmo. amis gakeTeba politikosis<br />

mxridan ukve didi warmatebaa.<br />

_ batono ramaz, saqarTveloSi<br />

ramdenad arsebobs imis resursi,<br />

rom ivaniSvilma dagegmili<br />

ganaxorcielos?<br />

_ im adamianTa ricxvs ar mivekuTvnebi<br />

vinc, Tvlis, rom<br />

dRevandeli ivaniSvili politikuri<br />

TvalsazrisisaT, misi saboloo<br />

saxea. is mudmivad icvleba,<br />

mudmivad swavlbs, Tu rogori<br />

unda iyos axal ampluaSi.<br />

erTi Tvis win ufro agresiuli<br />

iyo, dRes gacilebiT Riaa, erTi<br />

Tvis win SedarebiT nakleb sa-<br />

saerTo gazeTi<br />

`CemTvis, rogorc saqarTvelos moqalaqisTvis<br />

isic sakmarisi iqneba, rom ivaniSvilma<br />

mmarTvel partias umaravlesobiT<br />

mosvlis SesaZlebloba ar misces~<br />

kiTxebze hqonda pozicia, dRes<br />

ukve es maCvenebeli gazrdilia.<br />

ase rom, biznesmeni nel-nela irgebs<br />

politikosis imijs da albaT,<br />

mis poziciebis CamoyalibebasTan<br />

dakavSirebT, Zalian bevri<br />

siaxle gvelodeba. marTalia,<br />

biZina ivaniSvili politikaSi<br />

moumzadebeli Semovida, magram<br />

is yvela sakiTxs racionalurad<br />

udgeba da uars ar ambobs iswavlos,<br />

es ki qarTul politikaSi<br />

namdvilad didi iSviaTobaa.<br />

_ sofel WorvilaSi maswavleblebma<br />

ivaniSvilis moqalaqeobis<br />

aRdgenasTan dakavSirebiT,<br />

xelmowerebis Segroveba daiwyes.<br />

maT ukve SeuerTdnen sazogadobis<br />

warmomadgenlebic:<br />

momRerlebi, msaxiobebi. vrceldeba<br />

informaciac, rom Tavad saakaSvils,<br />

misi gundis wevrebic<br />

urCeven, biznesmens daubrunos<br />

moqalaqeoba. Tqveni azriT, xelisufleba<br />

wava am daTmobaze?<br />

_ gaaCnia sasworis meore<br />

mxareze ra ideba. xelisufleba<br />

Tu dainaxavs, rom safrTxe emuqreba,<br />

moqalaqeobas daubrunebs.<br />

im SemTxvevaSi Tu mTavrobis<br />

bed-iRbali ar Seicvleba, cxadia,<br />

daTmobaze ar wava da uaris<br />

mTqmelad darCeba.<br />

_ Tqveni azriT, rogor ajobebs<br />

xelisuflebisTvis wavides<br />

daTmobaze da daubrunos moqalaqeoba<br />

Tu ara?<br />

_ mgonia, saakaSvili ivaniSvils<br />

moqalaqeobas aRar daubrunebs<br />

da ecdeba procesi maqsimalurad<br />

gawelos, raTa ufro<br />

bevri berketi CarTos politikur<br />

brZolaSi.<br />

_ SesaZlebelia Tu ara, vi-<br />

Tareba revoluciur procesebSi<br />

gadaizardos?<br />

_ sruliad SesaZlebelia,<br />

ivaniSvilis winaaRmdegobis miuxedavad.<br />

mas ar surs viTarebis<br />

daZabva da revoluciur procesamde<br />

misvla. ar gamovricxav<br />

revoluciuri scenaris ganviTarebis<br />

iniciatori Tavad xelisufleba<br />

iyos. amisaTvis dasaSvebia,<br />

nacmoZraobam ivaniSvilis<br />

gundSi Canergos admianebi romlebic<br />

procesebis revoluciuri<br />

meTodebiT ganviTarebaze imuSaveben.<br />

mosaxleoba Tu quCeSi gamovida<br />

wesrigis damyarebis aucileblobiT,<br />

mmarTveli gundi<br />

Zalas gamoiyenebs. Semdeg ki sxva<br />

radikalurad ganwyobili opozicioneris<br />

msgavsad, ivaniSvilsac<br />

miakereben rusul iarliys.<br />

Tu rogor ganviTardeba<br />

movlenebi mxolod, sazogadoebaze<br />

araa damokidebuli, ganmsazRvreli<br />

iqneba, ra strategias<br />

airCevs xeliseufleba.<br />

_ preskonferenciidan gamoCnda,<br />

rom Tu ivaniSvils moqalaqeobas<br />

ar daubruneben, mzadaa,<br />

sakuTari ndobiT aRWurvili piri<br />

Cauyenos saTaveSi politkur<br />

partias. am formiT ra Sansebi<br />

aqvs biZina ivaniSvils?<br />

_ ra Tqma unda, Sansebi klebulobs,<br />

radgan politikuri<br />

persona qarTveli amomrCevlisTvis<br />

Zalian mniSvnelovania. xelisuflebas<br />

sakmaod saTanado da<br />

didi resursebi gaaCnia imisTvis,<br />

rom dafiqrdes, gaanalizos situacia<br />

ukan daxios, sadac saWiroa<br />

da sabolood gamarjvebas<br />

miaRwios. 2009 wlis aprilis<br />

movlenebisas swored ase moiqca.<br />

aqamde Tu xelisufleba impulsurad<br />

da emociurad moqmedebda,<br />

situacias dawynarebs da Seimu-<br />

Savebs sxva strategias. maT SeuZliaT<br />

Tavi daanebon ruseTis<br />

TemiT spekulirebas, putinis<br />

proeqtobas da Semoagdon sul<br />

sxva gegma, magaliTisTvis: viTom<br />

biZina ivaSvili saakaSvilis<br />

proeqtia.<br />

_ ras moigebs amiT saakaSvili?<br />

_ amiT SeuZlia opoziciurad<br />

ganwyobili sazogadoeba,<br />

romelic Tavis molodinebs bi-<br />

Zina ivaniSvilTan akavSirebs Ca-<br />

moacilos im motiviT, rom SesakrebTa<br />

gadanacvlebiT ubralod,<br />

situacia ar icvleba. xelisuflebas<br />

am kondiciamde misvla<br />

Zaliam martivad SeuZlia<br />

yovelgvari Tofisa da joxis<br />

gamoyenebis gareSe. amitom saubari<br />

TiTqos xelisuflebam yvelanairi<br />

resursi amowura, naadrevia.<br />

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom ivaniSvils<br />

aqamde ar Seuqmnia partia,<br />

ar gamoucxadebia samoqmedo<br />

gegma, sazogadoebis mxridan mainc<br />

didi mxardaWeriT sargeblobs.<br />

Tqveni azriT, ra aris mizezi, ara<br />

mgonia ganmsazRvreli mxolod<br />

qvelmoqmedeba yofiliyo?<br />

_ qvelmoqmedeba ivaniSvilis-<br />

Tvis piaris Semadgenel komponentad<br />

iqca. mosaxleobas SesaZlebloba<br />

mieca ivaniSvilis pirovnebaze<br />

garkveuli warmodgena<br />

Seqmnoda. adamiani, romelic qar-<br />

Tvel fenomenebs ki ar ebrZvis,<br />

piriqiT, xels uwyobs. faqtobrivad,<br />

amiT saakaSvilis antipodi<br />

gamovida. xelisuflebas Secdomebi<br />

rom ar daeSva sakadro<br />

cvlilebebis dros, erovnuli<br />

Rirebulebebis SenarCunebaSi,<br />

mSvidobianobaSi, teritoriuli<br />

mTlianobis sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT,<br />

sazogadoebis mxridan<br />

aseTi reaqcia ar iqneboda. dRes<br />

ivaniSvilze gaCnda molodini,<br />

rom is daicavs saqarTvelos da<br />

qarTvelebs.<br />

_ ivaniSvili apirebs Camoayalibos<br />

samoqalaqo moZraoba<br />

,,qarTuli ocneba~ razea damokidebuli<br />

maTi warmateba?<br />

_ simarTle giTxraT, gaugebaria,<br />

biZina ivaniSvili ratom<br />

ayalibes msgavi tipis moZraobas.<br />

misi mxridan es nabiji moumzadeblad<br />

meCveneba. sazogadoebrivi<br />

moZraoba stiqiurad isedac<br />

Seiqmna. ,,qarTu bankis~ win Sekrebili<br />

adamianebi amis naTeli<br />

magalia. ufro saintereso iqneboda<br />

ivaniSvils Sesabamisi nabijebi<br />

stiqiurad ganwyobili sazogadoebis<br />

SesanarCuneblad gadaedga.<br />

moZraobaSi gasawevrianeblad<br />

xalxi sxvadasxva motiviT<br />

miva. zogs miliarderis jibesTan<br />

miaxloba moundeba, nawili<br />

xelisuflebis davalebiT,<br />

ase rom ivaniSvils sazogadoebrivi<br />

moZraoba sakmao problemebs<br />

Seuqmnis.<br />

_ ivaniSvili did imedebs amyarebs<br />

arCevnebe. Tqveni azriT,<br />

ra Sansebi aqvs, roca saakaSvilis<br />

gundi arevnebTan dakavSirebul<br />

piarsa da politteqnologiebs<br />

sakmaod kargad flobs?<br />

_ am etapze Sansebze saubari<br />

miWirs, radgan biznesmenis politikaSi<br />

gamoCenis Semdeg socialur<br />

gamokvlevebs ar gavcnobivar.<br />

CemTvis, rogorc saqarTvelos<br />

moqalaqisTvis isic sakmarisi<br />

iqneba, rom ivaniSvilma<br />

mmarTvel partias umravlesobiT<br />

mosvlis SesaZlebloba ar misces.<br />

miviRoT parlamenti sadac<br />

ZalTa balansi 50-50 iqneba. iWidavon<br />

politikosebma da ase gadaWran<br />

problemebi. miTumtes,<br />

premier-ministrs parlamentis<br />

wevrebi irCeven da saintereso<br />

iqneba, sakanonmdeblo organoSi<br />

ra kuTxiT ganviTardeba movlenebi.<br />

amis miRweva biznesmens yovelgvari<br />

piarteqnologiebis gareSec<br />

SeuZlia.<br />

_ ra SeiZleba gaxdes arCevnebze<br />

ivaniSvilisTvis warmatebis<br />

garanti?<br />

_ rasakvirvelia, misi imiji,<br />

mis irgvliv gaerTianebuli sazogadoebisa<br />

da politikuri Zalebis<br />

konsolidacia, romelic<br />

sakmaod didi resursia da mesame,<br />

rogorc Cans, ivaniSvilis<br />

Sesaxeb erTnairi poziciebi aqvs<br />

aSS da ruseTs. ruseTs rogorc<br />

Cvevia, maincdamainc ar qirqilebs<br />

iaSvilis figuraze, rusuli<br />

media aSuqebs, magram neitralurad<br />

da maTi pozicia gasagebia.<br />

ivaniSvilis xelisuflebaSi<br />

mosvlis SemTxvevaSi ruseTs eqneba<br />

qarTul mTavrobasTan molaparakebis<br />

SesaZlebloba dRevandeli<br />

xelisuflebis pirobeb-<br />

Si es SeuZlebelia. medvedevs<br />

saqarTvelos mTavrobTan molaparakebebis<br />

dawyeba ukve sWirdeba<br />

imisTvis, rom evropuli donis<br />

qveyanad iqces.<br />

_ Tqveni azriT, ivaniSvilma<br />

arCvenebis dros unda CarTos<br />

mxolod ucxoeli piarteqnologiebis<br />

mcodne adamianebi, mxolod<br />

qarTveli Tu orive er-<br />

Tad?<br />

_ Tu mxolod ucxoel specialists<br />

aiyvans is Tavis qveynis<br />

gamocdilebas SesTavazebs,<br />

ramac saqarTveloSi, SesaZloa<br />

ar gaamarTlos. Tu mxolod adgilobriv<br />

specialists daeyrdnoba,<br />

man SeiZleba Tanamedrove<br />

piaarteqnologiebi ar icodes,<br />

amitom, adgilobrivma da ucxoelma<br />

specialistebma erToblivad<br />

unda imuSaon. am etapze rusebs<br />

aqvT yvelaze saukeTeso piari.<br />

isini elcinis arevnebisas<br />

gaiwvrTnen, roca Camoiyvanen amerikeli<br />

specialistebi, romlebmac<br />

rus specialistebTan er-<br />

Toblivad imuSaves da warmatebasac<br />

miaRwies.<br />

_ gavrcelda informacia,<br />

rom xelisuflebam samxedro moxaliseebis<br />

wvrTna daiwyo, xom<br />

ar emzadebian qveynaSi qaosis<br />

dawyebisaTvis?<br />

_ analogiuri procebisTvis,<br />

rogorc Cans, emzadebian. gavrcelebuli<br />

informaciiT, mzaddeba<br />

araformaluri struqturebi,<br />

romelTac, SesaZloa, saerTo ar<br />

aqvT xelisuflebasTan da sazogadoebaSi,<br />

ubralod, terorisa<br />

da SiSis danergvas emsaxureba.<br />

miranda nabaxteveli<br />

7

---

8 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

giorgi margvelaSvili: `ivaniSvilis<br />

gansakuTrebiT didi pliusi isaa,<br />

rom igi bevrad ufro<br />

gawonasworebulia,<br />

vidre nebismieri<br />

politikuri<br />

lideri<br />

ggvveessaauubbrreebbaa ``jjiippaass~~<br />

rreeqqttoorrii,, ffiilloossooffoossii<br />

giorgi<br />

margvelaSvili::<br />

_ batono giorgi, axali<br />

Zalis gamoCenam politikur<br />

cxovrebaSi axali realoba<br />

Seqmna. rogor gesaxebaT movlenebis<br />

Semdgomi ganviTareba,<br />

ra cvlilebebia mosalodneli?<br />

_ diax, marTlac axali realobis<br />

winaSe aRmovCndiT, gamoCnda<br />

alternatiuli gravitaciis<br />

centri, anu Zala, romelic<br />

aramxolod movlenebis<br />

sxvagvari SefasebiT, gansxvavdeba,<br />

aramed mas seriozuli<br />

wona, politikuri mniSvneloba<br />

gaaCnia. Sedegad, ori gravitaciuli<br />

centri Camoyalibda,<br />

rac aqamde ar arsebobda, anu<br />

realurad gaCnda alternativa.<br />

es pirveli pozitivi iyo, rac<br />

qarTul politikur sivrceSi<br />

ivaniSvilis gamoCenas ukavSirdeba.<br />

ufro zustad rom<br />

vTqvaT, pozitiuria ukve is,<br />

rom qarTul sazogadoebaSi,<br />

maT Soris politikur sivrce-<br />

Sic, gansxvavebuli politikuri<br />

Sexedulebebis arsebobam<br />

legitimuri xasiaTi miiRo.<br />

samwuxarod, Cveni xelisuflebis<br />

azrovneba, msoflmxedveloba,<br />

politikuri kredo<br />

ori centris arsebobasac ki<br />

ewinaaRmdegeba. Sesabamisad, ma-<br />

Ti nabijebis mimarTuleba tradiciulad<br />

Semdegia: maT undaT,<br />

rom arsebobdes mxolod erTi<br />

unitaruli, maTi politikuri<br />

sivrce. am tendenciam, Cveni<br />

xelisufleba avtoritarizmamde<br />

miiyvana da saakaSvili cota<br />

ar iyos tiraniasTan gaaTamaSa<br />

kidec... samwuxarod, am sakiTxis<br />

mimarT xelisuflebis<br />

damokidebuleba ar Secvlila,<br />

dRes mcdelobaa isev im unitarul<br />

politikur realobas davubrundeT.<br />

Sesabamisad, Zneli<br />

saTqmelia ra qmedebebs ganaxorcieleben.<br />

magram Tu wina<br />

wlebs gadavxedavT, TvalsaCino<br />

gaxdeba, rom es sqema yovelTvis<br />

garedan iyo mxardaWerili.<br />

kerZod, iyo es sakuTari<br />

xalxis darbeva-dapatimreba,<br />

Tu arCevnebis dros motyueba,<br />

nebismier SemTxvevaSi, am<br />

yvelafers garedan hqonda Tu<br />

ara mxardaWera, mimRebloba mainc.<br />

magram, viTareba Secvlilia.<br />

dRes, xelisuflebis mimarT<br />

msgavsi mxardaWera garedan<br />

ar Cans. anu aRar muSaobs<br />

Zveli sqema, rodesac xelisufleba<br />

Tavisi represiuli<br />

manqaniT „agvarebda“ viTarebas<br />

da Semdeg amas aravin irgvliv<br />

ar amCnevda. aseT viTarebaSi<br />

rogor moaxerxebs xelisufleba<br />

kidev erTxel Caidinos<br />

danaSauli kacobriobisa da<br />

Tavisi xalxis winaSe da moiqces<br />

ise, rogorc icis, rogorc<br />

sCvevia? ar Cans, rom<br />

aseTi saqcieli garedan iqneba<br />

mxardaWerili, dRes vandaluri<br />

politikis mimarT mzaobas<br />

ver vxedav. Sesabamisad, xelisufleba<br />

Cveuli sqemis gareT<br />

darCa. amitom Zneli saTqmelia<br />

ras moimoqmedebs igi.<br />

_ ras niSnavs 18 elCis<br />

stumroba mis karze, imas xom<br />

ara, rom dasavleli gare Zalebic<br />

mxars uWeren ivaniSvils?<br />

_ CemTvis Zneli saTqmelia<br />

ra formiT xdeba xolme es garigebebi.<br />

saxezea faqtebi. 25<br />

maiss sakuTari eris, qveynis,<br />

zogadad demokratiuli principebis<br />

winaSe danaSauli iqna<br />

Cadenili, meore dRes ki amave<br />

adgilas aRlumi tardeba, rasac<br />

saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis<br />

mxridan mSvidi Sefasebebi<br />

eZleva. aseTi antisaxelmwifoebrivi<br />

qmedebisTvis xelisuflebas<br />

saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis<br />

mxridan mwvane Suqi<br />

aqvs anTebuli. ivaniSvilis<br />

SemTxvevaSi ar vici, rogor<br />

iqneba es sakiTxi. magram faqtia,<br />

rom ivaniSvils aqvs mxardaWera,<br />

rac legitimizirebulia<br />

Tundac elCebis vizitiT.<br />

ivaniSvili saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis<br />

mier mxardaWerilia,<br />

rogorc kandidati, romelTanac<br />

bandituri formiT<br />

urTierToba daSvebuli ar<br />

aris. amiT ar vambob TiTqos<br />

ivaniSvili awyobs msoflios,<br />

an saakaSvils cvlian ivaniSviliT.<br />

magram is, rom ivaniS-<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

vils imuniteti gaaCnia saakaSvilis<br />

vandalizmis sapirispirod,<br />

es aSkaraa.<br />

_ 25 maisis Rames da 26 maisis<br />

dilas ganviTarebul movlenebs<br />

Tqven demokratiis dasasruli<br />

uwodeT. ra SeiZleba<br />

Secvalos axalma politikurma<br />

Zalam Tundac demokratiulobis<br />

kuTxiT?<br />

_demokratia marTlac dasrulda<br />

maSin, roca 25 maisis<br />

Rames rusTavelze vandalizmi<br />

moxda, meore dRes ki am adgilas<br />

taS-fanduri moewyo;<br />

mkvlelobis adgilas zeimi moewyo.<br />

ra SeiZleba moxdes axla?<br />

_ yvelafers viwyebT Tavidan,<br />

gvaqvs mcdeloba, kidev<br />

erTxel davemsgavsoT civilur<br />

saxelmwifos. ramdenad SesaZlebelia<br />

Tu ara es, am etapze<br />

Zneli saTqmelia, es nel-nela<br />

gamoikveTeba. jerjerobiT ivaniSvilis<br />

politikuri saxe ikveTeba,<br />

rogorc uaRresad racionaluri,<br />

gawonasworebuli<br />

politikuri lideris. es damokidebulia<br />

imaze, samomavlod<br />

misi politikuri qmedebebi<br />

ramdenad iqneba mimarTuli<br />

Tanamedrove liberalurdemokratiuli<br />

saxelmwifos<br />

mSeneblobisken. misi ritorika<br />

imedismomcemia, anu ritorikis,<br />

Rirebulebebis doneze, racionalizmis<br />

xarisxis gaTvaliswinebiT,<br />

ivaniSvili dadebiTi<br />

figuraa. magram realurad ra<br />

moxdeba Zneli saTqmelia.<br />

_Tumca, mas gansxvavebiT<br />

patarkaciSvilisgan struqtura<br />

Camouyalibebeli aqvs. ramdenad<br />

imoqmedebs es misi gegmis<br />

sisruleSi moyvanaze?<br />

_ patarkaciSvilis da ivaniSvilis<br />

Sedareba yovelTvis<br />

xelovnuri mgonia. patarkaciSvili<br />

ivaniSvilisgan gansxvavebiT<br />

TviTon ar iyo politikuri<br />

lideri. patarkaciSvili<br />

iyo politikuri procesis mastimulirebeli.patarkaciSvils<br />

hqonda garkveuli politikuri<br />

resursebi, romelic<br />

gamoixateboda mis kontaqteb-<br />

Si, finansur resursSi, mediasaSualebebSi.<br />

ivaniSvilma, dRes,<br />

Tavisi politikuri ganvi-<br />

Tarebis am etapze, politikurad<br />

sul sxva realoba fulis,<br />

media-resursis gareSe Seqmna.<br />

mas, garda Tavisi pirovnebisa,<br />

jer sxva araferi CaurTia am<br />

procesSi. bunebrivia, xelisuflebac<br />

Zalian daexmara Tavisi<br />

ugunuri qmedebebiT. patarkaciSvilis<br />

dros sxva sqema<br />

moqmedebda, iyo ufro Zlieri<br />

opozicia. ivaniSvili ubralod<br />

gamoCnda da man Tqva,<br />

rom is aris alternativa da<br />

mxolod amis deklarirebiT<br />

Seqmna alternatiuli realo-<br />

ba; yvela danarCenma am alternatiuli<br />

gravitaciuli velis<br />

garSemo triali daiwyo. anu<br />

ivaniSvili Tavisi pirovnebiT<br />

zemoqmedebs procesebze, patarkaciSvili<br />

ki procesze zemoqmedebda<br />

resursebiT. jerjerobiT<br />

ar gamoCenila ivaniSvilis<br />

arc finansuri da arc<br />

sxva resursi, magram vxedavT,<br />

rom realoba ukve Secvlila.<br />

Tu ivaniSvili warmatebiT gaarTmevs<br />

Tavs Semdgom etapebs<br />

_ struqturebis Seqmnas, mis<br />

Sesabamis aRWurvas, mediis sakiTxis<br />

gadawvetas, mas bunebrivia<br />

seriozuli warmatebis

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w. saerTo gazeTi<br />

winapiroba gaaCnia, radgan dRes<br />

igi politikurad ukve warmatebulia.<br />

_ sazogadoebas gasamarjveblad<br />

ivaniSvilis 5 miliardis<br />

imedi aqvs. Tumca, naklebi miliardebi<br />

arc mis mTavar oponents<br />

xelisuflebas aqvs.<br />

_ finansuri resursi, cxadia,<br />

aris faqtori, magram Znelia<br />

Tqva, ra rols TamaSobs<br />

igi politikur pocesSi. politikuri<br />

warmatebis formula<br />

bevri faqtorisgan Sedgeba.<br />

pirvel rigSi es aris xalxi.<br />

ramdenad daCagrulni, daterorebulnic<br />

ar unda viyoT, xelisuflebas<br />

gaazrebuli aqvs, rom<br />

xalxis azri mniSvnelovania.<br />

amitomac amuSavebs igi ase intensiurad<br />

ideologiur manqanas<br />

televiziebis saxiT. swored<br />

amitomac yovelTvis cdilobs<br />

garkveuli tipis piarkampaniis<br />

Catarebas politikuri<br />

opoziciis mimarT. am TvalsazrisiT<br />

xelisufleba mkveTr minusebSia<br />

ivaniSvilTan. imitom,<br />

rom xelisuflebis mxares aris<br />

8-wliani kompromatebis tomebi<br />

_ cemis, Cagvris, zombirebis,<br />

omis wagebis, gaRatakebis da<br />

a.S. sxvaTaSoris, xelisuflebis<br />

Secdoma isicaa, rom Tuki<br />

dadebiTi ram gaukeTebiaT, esec<br />

mxolod iZulebis formiT. ivaniSvilis<br />

mxares aris martivad<br />

_ qvelmoqmedeba. meore _ Tu<br />

xelisufleba mCagvrelia da<br />

xalxs eubneba _ saxlSi Cumad<br />

ijeqiT da rusul musikas nu<br />

mousmenT, iazrovneT modelirebuli<br />

realobis formiTo, am<br />

dros modis ivaniSvili da geubneba<br />

_ iyavi Tavisufali adamiani<br />

da iazrovne rogorc gindao.<br />

Semdegi momentia _ saer-<br />

TaSoriso mxardaWera, rac ar-<br />

CevnebSi erT-erTi ganmsazRvreli<br />

faqtoria. Tuki adre gveubnebodnen<br />

ki, batono iyos nominalurad<br />

opozicia, magram Tuki<br />

vinme realurad Tavs wamoswevs<br />

TavSi Caartyi da Cven gagipravebTo,<br />

es faqtori ivaniSvil-<br />

Tan mimarTebaSi moxsnilia da<br />

rogorc minimum ivaniSvils da<br />

xelisuflebas Tanabari pirobebis<br />

moedani aqvT micemuli.<br />

_ saubrisas Tqven axseneT,<br />

rom biZina ivaniSvils imuniteti<br />

aqvs. rogorc cnobilia igi<br />

xelisuflebis Secvlis momxre<br />

mxolod arCevnebis gziTaa, rac<br />

erT <strong>weli</strong>wadSi unda gaimar-<br />

Tos. rogor fiqrobT, ramdenad<br />

gahyveba es imuniteti ivaniSvils<br />

arCevnebamde?<br />

_ ramdenad gahyveba ivaniSvils<br />

arCevnebamde imuniteti,<br />

CemTvis amis Tqma Znelia Tumca,<br />

ivaniSvili iqceva rogorc uaRresad<br />

kanonmorCili adamiani,<br />

igi jerjerobiT xelisuflebas<br />

aranairi agresiis safuZvels ar<br />

aZlevs. ivaniSvilis gansakuTrebiT<br />

didi pliusia is, rom<br />

igi bvrad ufro gawonasworebulia,<br />

vidre nebismieri, saSua-<br />

lo statistikuri qarTveli<br />

politikuri lideri. simSvide,<br />

rac ivaniSvils gaaCnia, yuradRebismimqcevia.<br />

rodesac mas<br />

pirdapir Seuracxyofas ayeneben<br />

patara, ubedur dReSi Cagdebuli,<br />

daqiravebuli Jurnalistebi,<br />

kerZod, ekiTxebian _ aris<br />

Tu ara igi kremlis bolo imedi?<br />

_ igi RimiliT pasuxobs da<br />

eubneba _ nu RelavT, yvelaferi<br />

kargad iqneba, me vxvdebi<br />

Tqven ra mZime dReSi xarTo.<br />

aseTi tipis adamianis wyobidan<br />

gamoyvana, misi strategiuli<br />

xazis Secvla ar iqneba advili.<br />

miTumetes, im gacveTili meTodebiT,<br />

rac albaT, ivaniSvilis-<br />

Tvis ukve kargad nacnobia.<br />

_ xelisufleba SeiZleba<br />

sust qmedebebs axorcielebs,<br />

Tumca am mTavari oponentis<br />

uyuradRebod mitoveba ar Rirs.<br />

dRes aravis aqvs iluzia, rom<br />

xelisuflebas sZinavs da igi<br />

ivaniSvilis sawinaaRmdegod mimarTul<br />

nabijebs ar gadadgams.<br />

rogor fiqrobT, kidev ra kontrdartymebi<br />

SeiZleba miayenos<br />

xelisuflebam ivaniSvils?<br />

_ ra Tqma unda kmayofileba<br />

imiT, rom ivaniSvilisTvis xelisuflebis<br />

mier ganxorcielebuli<br />

Setevebi jerjerobiT<br />

mxolod momgebiani da ara wamgebiani<br />

xiblia. SesaZloa isic,<br />

rom kidev erTxel Sedges is<br />

garigebebi, da viRacam saakaSvils<br />

ufleba misces ivaniSvils<br />

ise moeqces, rogorc Cveulebriv<br />

qarTvels da ganaxorcielon<br />

mis mimarT Cveuli terori.<br />

ar vici sad da rogor dgeba<br />

es SeTanxmeba, es Zneli saTqmelia.<br />

magram aq, am frontze,<br />

qarTul realobaSi ivaniSvili<br />

Secdomas ar uSvebs.<br />

Tamar SveliZe<br />

manana berikaSvili, reJisori: usamar-<br />

Tloba imdenad Zneli mosaTmenia, rom SiSsac<br />

ki Zlevs. me piradad aRSfoTebuli var imis<br />

gamo, rom biZina<br />

ivaniSvils Camoar-<br />

Tves moqalaqeoba.<br />

aRSfoTebuli var,<br />

rac moxda misi<br />

bankis winaaRmdeg<br />

da minda e.w. inteligenciissaxeliT,<br />

rogorc dRes<br />

gveZaxian, romelic<br />

Turme moqr-<br />

Tama ivaniSvilma,<br />

ganvacxado, rom<br />

batonma biZinam eris<br />

saukeTeso nawili Tavis droze gadaarCina<br />

da yvelafers daarqvan Tavisi saxeli. cota<br />

koreqtulebi iyvnen TavianT gamonaTqvamebSi.<br />

me ar var politologi, var xelovani da<br />

vTvli rom Cemi saTqmeli SemoqmedebaSi unda<br />

vTqva da ara raRac mosazrebebSi, radgan SeiZleba<br />

raime SemeSalos. Cems qveyanaSi ise ganviTarda<br />

movlenebi, bevri rame aRar momwonda,<br />

gansakuTrebiT 2008 wlis mere, magram piki am<br />

movlenebisa aris dRevandeli dRe. me piradad<br />

saerTod gacruebuli<br />

mqonda imedi poziciazec da opoziciazec.<br />

magram gaCnda imedi, radgan<br />

biZina ivaniSvilma ganacxada,<br />

davamTavroT es quCis aqciebi da mitingebi.<br />

batoni aris Zalian kargi adamiani,<br />

kargi biznesmeni, qvelmoqmedi da<br />

xom maqvs ufleba, damacado,<br />

raTa gavigo, rogori politikosi<br />

iqneba da gavakeTo<br />

Cemi arCevani. ra<br />

aucilebelia CamoarTva<br />

moqalaqeoba, Tavs daesxa<br />

banks, iaraRi waarTva<br />

dacvas, ratom xdeba es?.<br />

CemTvis yvela adamiani<br />

Zvirfasia, imisda miuxedavad<br />

sad dgas. aRar SemiZlia<br />

es dapirispireba da Worebi.<br />

xom SeiZleba ar gavlanZRoT, ar mivayenoT Seuracxyofa<br />

adamians. wynarad amixseniT da damimtkiceT,<br />

ratom aris ruseTis agenti.maSin<br />

mec agenti gamovdivar, ruseTSi vswavlobdi<br />

da Zalian bevri megobaric myavs iq.<br />

biZina ivaniSvilis mosvla politikaSi<br />

aris Zalian principuli, marTali, patiosani<br />

adamianis mosvla, romelic Zalian waadgeba<br />

rogorc politikur speqtrs da sazogadoebas,<br />

aseve xelisuflebasac, romelsac es Tvisebebi<br />

namdvilad aklia.<br />

saintereso iyo gamogekiTxaT adamianebi,<br />

romelTac „qarTuSi“ SehqondaT fuli. es xom<br />

iyo Cveulebrivi sazogadoebis warmomadgenlebi<br />

da ara is xalxi, visac ivaniSvili xelfass<br />

uxdida.<br />

me ar maqvs safuZveli, ar davujero baton<br />

biZinas, Tu ratom modis politikaSi. qveyanas<br />

rom Svela sWirdeba, vinmes eWvi epareba? ratom<br />

unda SevboWoT adamiani, romelsac Zalian<br />

bevri kargi saqme aqvs gakeTebuli am qveynisTvis,<br />

gadadgas es nabiji da davinaxoT, ris<br />

gakeTebas apirebs.<br />

daviT usufaSvili: biZina ivaniSvilma<br />

Tavisi pirveli preskonferenciiT, sazogadoebas<br />

Tavi gaacno, rogorc Zalian Cveulebrivma<br />

da saqveyno saqmeebze dafiqrebulma adamianma<br />

da ara _ mesiam,<br />

romelsac yvela<br />

kiTxvaze pasuxi<br />

aqvs da yvela<br />

problemis mogvarebis<br />

pirobas<br />

iZleva.<br />

vfiqrob, molodinigaamarTla,<br />

radgan datvirTuli<br />

iyo<br />

yvela SesaZlo<br />

da araSesaZlo<br />

komponentebiT; aq vnaxeT seriozuli warmodgena<br />

im TvalsazrisiT, rom Jurnalistebis er-<br />

Ti nawili misuli iyo Tavisi saTqmelis saTqmelad<br />

da ara _ pasuxebis mosasmenad. es sruliad<br />

aSkara da TvalSisacemi iyo. ar mgonia,<br />

rom am taqtikam gaamarTla da am gziT moxerxda<br />

biZina ivaniSvilis portretis gaubraloeba.<br />

piriqiT, is sakmaod mSvidad Sexvda am yvelafers.<br />

ivaniSvilma ramdenjerme mianiSna, rom orientirebulia<br />

kompetenturi gundis Seqmnaze,<br />

anu wesierebiT da moraluri kriteriumebiT<br />

SerCeuli gundis imedad akeTebs im gancxadebebs,<br />

rasac akeTebs da ara mxolod piradi inteleqtualuri<br />

Tu finansuri resursis kvalobaze.<br />

misi myari pozicia xelisuflebis arCevnebis<br />

gziT Secvlis Sesaxeb aris Zalian mniSvnelovani,<br />

raTa xelisuflebam ver moaxerxos<br />

cnobili da nacadi strategiiT saqmis warmar-<br />

Tva, TiTqos, qarTul opoziciaSi mxolod revoluciaze<br />

orientirebuli marginalebi arian.<br />

9<br />

teleNEWS<br />

teleNEWS<br />

maia jabua, momRerali: momRerlebma,<br />

uamravma ansamblma gavaprotesteT xelisuf- teleNEWS<br />

lebis qmedeba ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg. zogier-<br />

Ti nawyenic ki darCa, rom ver moaxerxa TavianTi<br />

xelmoweris dafiqsireba. xelovnebis warmomadgenlebi<br />

Tavad iCenen iniciativas,<br />

rom CaerTon am protest-<br />

Si.<br />

sazogadoeba gamococxlebulia,<br />

man gadaabija SiSs, radgan yvelafers<br />

aqvs zRvari- SiSsac, moTmenasac teleNEWS<br />

da dumilsac. gaCnda imedi<br />

da rwmena xalxSi.<br />

am admianma moaxrxa<br />

ndobis Zalian male<br />

mopoveba adamianebSi.<br />

xalxma icis mis mier<br />

gakeTebuli saqvelmoqmedo<br />

saqmeebis Sesaxeb. Tumca<br />

didi finansebi yovelT- teleNEWS<br />

vis yvelafers ar wyvets.<br />

finansebi sxvebsac aqvT, magram<br />

survili ar aqvT, amdeni<br />

sikeTe akeTon ase uangarod da CrdilSi dgomiT.<br />

CemSi yovelTvis aRtacebas iwvevda aseTi<br />

adamianebi. albaT misi gakeTebuli saqmeebi<br />

aris safuZveli im didi ndobisa, rac mas xalxma<br />

gamoucxada. rac Seexeba bankTan damdgar<br />

teleNEWS<br />

rigebs, es aris is solidaroba, rac aqamomde<br />

gvaklda Cven.<br />

sxva aris roca<br />

adamianebi midian<br />

mitingze, magram<br />

rodesac sazogadoebausamarTlobasupirispirdeba<br />

ase so-<br />

teleNEWS<br />

lidarulad, es<br />

aris win gadadgmuli<br />

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albaT adamianebi,<br />

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poziciis dafiqsirebisgan, im dros elodebian,<br />

roca kargad gairkveva situacia da visteleNEWS<br />

mxares aris warmateba. es dro rom dadgeba,<br />

SeiZleba mere erTmaneTs daaswron sityvis<br />

Tqma.<br />

me ar var is adamiani, romelic Zalian<br />

swrafad iRebs gadawyvetilebas. yvela detals<br />

da wvrilmans vaqcev yuradRebas. aranairi Sexeba<br />

ar mqonia baton biZinasTan, ar vekuTvni<br />

maT, visac xelfass uxdida. Sesabamisad aranairi<br />

valdebuleba da davaleba mis mimarT ar teleNEWS<br />

malaparakebs. ubralod, vakvirdebi am admians<br />

da vTvli, rom rogorc momRerlisTvis ar<br />

aris sakmarisi kargi xma da smena da arsebobs<br />

uamravi komponenti, romelic aucilebelia xelovanisTvis,<br />

isea politikosic. am adamians ki<br />

gaaCnia uamravi iseTi Tviseba, rac saWiroa,<br />

rom iyos kargi, warmatebuli politikosi.<br />

Tu davacdiT am admaians, is ityvis Tavis saTqmels.<br />

teleNEWS

---

10 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

amas winaT erTi uxvtira-<br />

Jiani da `neitraluri~ gaze-<br />

Tis TanamSromelma, axalgazrda<br />

qalbatonma Tqva _ marTalia,<br />

me politeqnikuri davam-<br />

Tavre, magram dRes Jurnalisti<br />

var. Cemi naSromebiT Jurnalistikis<br />

fakultetis studentebs<br />

aswavlian, rogorc<br />

qarTuli Jurnalistikis saukeTeso<br />

nimuSebso...<br />

marTlacda, sad imuSaos im<br />

qalbatonma? teqnikuri dargis<br />

specialistebisTvis saqarTveloSi<br />

samuSao ar aris,<br />

samagierod, arsebobs media,<br />

romelic yvelas da yvelafers<br />

itevs...<br />

* * *<br />

im avadsaxsenebeli `vardebis<br />

revoluciis~ Semdeg xelisuflebaSi<br />

axalgazrdebi<br />

movidnen. umaRlesi, sakanonmdeblo<br />

da aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebis<br />

berketebi mTlianad<br />

gadavida axali Taobis<br />

xelSi. mediac gaTavisuflda<br />

komunisturi marwuxebisgan da<br />

laRad gaSala frTebi, revoluciuri<br />

talRiT mogvrili<br />

siamovnebisgan SvebiT amoisun-<br />

Tqa...<br />

saocrebebs da ucnaurobebs<br />

ra gamolevs saqarTvelo-<br />

Si, magram saintereso mainc<br />

is aris, ras erCian Jurnalistebi<br />

ivaniSvils?<br />

mokled, rac im dRes biznescentrSi<br />

moxda, yvelam sakuTari<br />

TvaliT naxa.<br />

ra moxda, kolegebo, Tuki<br />

namdvili Jurnalistebi, anu<br />

miukerZoeblebi da damoukideblebi<br />

xarT, axali politikuri<br />

moTamaSis gamoCenam<br />

Tqven ratom dagafrTxoT da<br />

dagaSinaT ase, guli yelSi<br />

rom gqondaT mobjenili da<br />

rom xtunavdiT, Tqvenc es<br />

mTavroba xom ara xarT, safr-<br />

Txe rom danaxeT alternatiuli<br />

Zalis gamoCenisas?<br />

bedma dagvifaros da, zogi<br />

faruli da zogi aSkara mi-<br />

Sistebi xom ar iyaviT im<br />

dRes iq Tavmoyrili? arada,<br />

Jurnalisti rom aravis momxre<br />

ar unda iyos?<br />

ki, opoziciam dakarga qalwuloba<br />

miSasTan, magram qar-<br />

Tuli Jurnalistikac xom ar<br />

gminavs, netav, miSas buduar-<br />

Si?<br />

im darbazSi im dRes, sxva-<br />

Ta Soris, TiTo-orola mediajgufi<br />

iyo, romelic neitralurad,<br />

damkvirveblis TvaliT<br />

uyurebda ivaniSvils.<br />

`mtrebi~ meti iyvnen. ra aris<br />

es? lustracia?<br />

`meoTxe~, anu gvelsa<br />

xvreliT amoiyvans<br />

joxi SeCxikinebuli...<br />

Tu Jurnalistebi iq imitom<br />

iyvnen, rom xalxisTvis<br />

miewodebinaT informacia,<br />

xalxma veraferi gaigo ivaniSvilisgan,<br />

radgan xelCarTul<br />

Cxubs, kinklaobas da JiJilxivils<br />

Tavi ver daaRwies da<br />

`gamocda~, romelic TiTqos<br />

ivaniSvilisTvis unda CaetarebinaT,<br />

Jurnalistebma ver<br />

Caabares...<br />

araa ivaniSvilSi saqme, davaneboT<br />

Tavi konkretul pirebs<br />

_ 1 noembers ivaniSvils<br />

rom etitinebodiT, gamodiT<br />

erTi, ramdeni gaubedavT saakaSvils<br />

erT Tamam SekiTxvas<br />

mainc...<br />

* * *<br />

erTi 88 wlis loginad Cavardnili<br />

kaci gvirekavs redaqciaSi<br />

yoveldRe. batoni<br />

vaJa, romelic veraze, yofili<br />

belinskis quCaze cxovrobs,<br />

yovel darekvaze wuxs, unda<br />

avdge da samarTali gavark-<br />

vioo. geRimebaT, Tqven, baton<br />

vaJaze, ara? im adamians guli<br />

miuwevs simarTlis gasarkvevad<br />

da visac SeuZlia amis gakeTeba,<br />

isini miSas dakrulze<br />

cekvaven.<br />

zogierTi Jurnalisti<br />

`vardebis revoluciis~ didebulad<br />

dagvirgvinebis Semdeg<br />

`redisonSi~ gamarTuli grandiozuli<br />

`samaRariCo~ sufridan<br />

`revoluciaSi~ monawileobisTvis<br />

cincxali `nivebiT~<br />

dasaCuqrebuli dabrunebula<br />

saxlSi. aba, amis mere<br />

rogor SeiZleba miSas<br />

`mters~ yelSi ar ece gamosa-<br />

Radravad. miT umetes es mteri<br />

da mowinaaRmdege saqarTvelos<br />

`damaqcevari~, `qvewarmavali~<br />

biZina ivaniSvili Tua?!<br />

xalxo, is mainc ar gagigoniaT,<br />

`gvelsa xvreliT amoiyvans<br />

ena tkbilad moubario~?<br />

Cemi istoriis maswavlebeli,<br />

araCveulebrivad enamoswrebuli,<br />

cxonebuli karlo<br />

mamalaZe am andazas aseTi<br />

interpretaciiT ambobda: `gvelsa<br />

xvreliT amoiyvans joxi<br />

SeCxikinebulio~. ra joxiT<br />

da mikrofoniT misdevT am<br />

adamians, Tu aseTi vaJkacebi<br />

iyaviT, `imedSi~ rom scemes,<br />

begves da dawamles Jurnalistebi<br />

Tqveni Sefebis Tqvennairma<br />

xelqveiTebma, maSin ratom<br />

ar amoiReT xma da ase<br />

erTbaSad ratom ar SeutieT<br />

Tqveni kolegebisa da saer-<br />

Tod, marTali sityvis damTrgunvelebs.<br />

simarTle isaa, rom krizisi<br />

qarTul JurnalistikaSi,<br />

romelze saubaric, ratomRac<br />

momakvdinebel codvad iTvleba,<br />

2003 wlidan ar dawyebula.<br />

ra memkvidreobac miiRo<br />

qarTulma mediam, imas veraferi<br />

miumata, piriqiT, ufro gaacamtvera<br />

da miwasTan gaaswora<br />

Jurnalistis saxeli.<br />

I arxis TanamSromelma<br />

axalgazrda Jurnalistma rom<br />

erT momitinges sastikad scema,<br />

xelisuflebam daawinaura<br />

da I arxidan SedarebiT usafrTxo<br />

da Tbil adgilas gadaiyvana.<br />

mTavari kanoni, rasac Jurnalistma<br />

arasdros unda uRalatos<br />

_ ar unda gaxdes vin-<br />

mes mexotbe, arc aSkara da<br />

arc faruli mxardamWeri.<br />

amiT is informaciis obieqturobas<br />

did zians ayenebs.<br />

simarTle unda vTqva: 1 noembers<br />

biZina ivaniSvilma moaxerxa<br />

srulad warmoeCina qar-<br />

Tuli Jurnalistikis gaRatakebuli<br />

da ubadruki saxe...<br />

Jurnalistika, anu meoTxe<br />

xelisufleba dRes Zalad ga-<br />

ficxebul-gawiwmatebuli nino<br />

gomarTelia, romelsac davaleba<br />

aqvs Sesasrulebeli,<br />

qarTuli Jurnalistika dRes<br />

aris lika beraia, romelic<br />

mikrofons malavs qvedatanis<br />

qveS, raTa ar waarTvan da mere<br />

gauazrebeli, meqanikuri<br />

SekiTxvebi dasvas...<br />

qarTuli Jurnalistika<br />

aris gamomcemloba `samSoblodan~<br />

mujlugunebiT gamoyrili<br />

JurnalistTa mTeli wyeba,<br />

romlebic ignorirebulni da<br />

ugulebelyofilni arian...<br />

me var Jurnalisti...<br />

magram me ar var `meoTxe~...<br />

vxedav da vwer, rom dang-<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

reulia qveyana, ispoba ena,<br />

sarwmunoeba, xelidan gvecleba<br />

samSoblo. da me, rogorc<br />

Jurnalisti, var meoTxe xelisufleba?..<br />

* * *<br />

axlaxan wavikiTxe Jurnali<br />

`tabula~, romelic inteligents<br />

warsulis gadmonaS-<br />

Tad miiCnevs da TiTqmis antikvarad<br />

Tvlis. didi eWvi<br />

maqvs, qarTuli mediis umetesi<br />

nawilic ase fiqrobs.<br />

inteligenti aris, sxvaTa<br />

Soris, TviTon Jurnalisti,<br />

magram, rogorc ivaniSvilis<br />

biznes-centrSi kidev erTxel<br />

damtkicda, samwuxarod, qarTvelma<br />

Jurnalistebma jer ar<br />

ician, rom ar arian arc yaCa-<br />

Rebi, arc CamSvebebi, arc Ssss<br />

pagoniani jaSuSebi, aramed<br />

arian, pirvel rigSi, inteligentebi...<br />

Tumca maT jer ar ician<br />

amis Sesaxeb...<br />

arc uTxraT, daumaleT,<br />

jerjerobiT, Torem, visac<br />

sindisi kidev SerCa, Zalian<br />

Sercxveba...<br />

sindisze gamaxsenda, saqar-<br />

TveloSi, netavi, ramdeni<br />

Jurnalisti ityvis, rom mis<br />

profesiaSi es gasacodavebuli<br />

sindisi saWiro aris?<br />

albaT, Zalian cota da<br />

vinc ityvis, isic ar iqneba<br />

agulwrfeli...<br />

* * *<br />

rogorc SevityveT, male<br />

biZina ivaniSvili samoqalaqo<br />

moZraobas Seqmnis, arCevnebamde<br />

ki jer kidev droa, nacmoZraobas<br />

odnav patara diskomforti<br />

ki Seeqmna ivaniSvilis<br />

gamocxadebiT, magram, didad<br />

ar Sewuxebulan, rogorc<br />

etyoba, nacebi kidev karga<br />

xans ibogineben... saxelisuflebo<br />

kastad Camoyalibebul<br />

Jurnalistebsac Tavisuflebis<br />

sio kidev didxans ar daufrTxobs<br />

simSvides da demagogiis<br />

sazRvaric kvlav<br />

usazRvro darCeba maTTvis. ma-<br />

Ti zRapari aq ar mTavrdeba,<br />

rogorc ivaniSvilis prescentris<br />

xelmZRvanelis irakli<br />

tripolskis cxonebuli mama<br />

iakob tripolski amTavrebda<br />

xolme I arxze saRamos zRapris<br />

moyolas: `mSvid Zils<br />

gisurvebT, Cemo patara gogocuneboo~!...<br />

simSvides gisurvebT, jerjerobiT...<br />

iranda kalandaZe

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

paarizi. baank ``rosiiski kreditis~<br />

daamaaaarsebeli daa mflobeli boris<br />

ivaaniSvili erT-eerTi yvelaaze idumaalebiT<br />

moculi mewaarmeaa ruseTSi. igi<br />

praaqtikulaad aar monaawileobdaa saajaaro<br />

RonisZiebebSi, aaraasodes miuciaa<br />

interviu.<br />

raas saaqmiaanobdaa ivaaniSvili gaareSe<br />

Tvaals miRmaa?<br />

qonebaas aagrovebdaa.<br />

aaxlaaxaan Jurnaalmaa ``forbsmaa~ misi<br />

qonebaa 2,6 miliaard dolaaraad Seaafaasaa;<br />

Tumcaa Taavaad ivaaniSvilis sityvebiT<br />

Tu vimsjelebT, ``roskreditis~<br />

mepaatrone 5 miliaardze meti Rirs.<br />

SaarSaan mis bizness gaardaamtexi xaanaa<br />

daaudgaa. msxvili saamrewvelo aaqtivebis<br />

_ stoilenskisaa daa mixaailovskis<br />

saamTo-ggaamaamdidrebeli kombinaatebis<br />

gaayidviT 2 miliaarze meti iSovaa. es<br />

sruliaad moulodneli aaRmoCndaa aaraa<br />

maarto baazris monaawileebisTvis, aaraamed<br />

maaTTvisaac, vinc ivaaniSvils icnobdaa.<br />

raatom moiqcaa aase, rogor aapirebs<br />

miRebuli Taanxis gaankaargvaas _<br />

aamis Sesaaxeb biZinaa ivaaniSvilmaa ``vedomostis~<br />

Taavisi cxovrebis maanZilze<br />

micemul pirvel interviuSi piraadaad<br />

uaambo.<br />

_ Tqven arasodes migiciaT interviu<br />

da Tqveni samewarmeo sawqmianobis<br />

dasawyisidanve CrdilSi yofnas<br />

amjobinebdiT. ras ukavSirdeba aseTi<br />

gasaidumloeba?<br />

_ me marTlac ar var sajaro<br />

adamiani, rac mxolod da mxolod<br />

Cems xasiaTs ukavSirdeba. ar miyvars<br />

JurnalistebTan Sexvedra, TavSeyris<br />

adgilebSi yofna. iq niRbis<br />

morgebaa saWiro, me ki ver vitan<br />

formalobebs. ar msurs vakeTo ise-<br />

Ti ram, rac Cems Tavisuflebas zRudavs.<br />

zogadad, ar miyvars yuradRebis<br />

centrSi yofna, arc dResaswaulebi,<br />

sakuTar dabadebis dResac ki<br />

arasdros vixdi.<br />

_ riTi SeiZleba avxsnaT, rom<br />

`rosiiski krediti~ da `metaloin-<br />

redaqciisagan: biZina ivaniSvilis interviu,<br />

romelsac `saerTo gazeTis~ dRevandel<br />

nomerSi gTavazobT, gazeT `vedomostSi~<br />

2005 wlis 7 aprils gamoqveynda da imTaviTve<br />

sazogadoebis didi interesi gamoiwvia.<br />

miuxedavad imisa, rom didi xnis ganmavlobaSi<br />

es iyo biZina ivaniSvilis erTaderTi<br />

interviu, misi sruli teqsti qarTul enaze<br />

ar Targmnila da ar gamoqveynebula (daibeWda<br />

mxolod mcire fragenti).<br />

marTalia, intervius gamoqveynebidan eqvsma<br />

welma gaiara da am xnis ganmavlobaSi, cxadia,<br />

bevri ram Seicvala, magram, vfiqrobT es<br />

interviu mainc uaRresad mniSvnelovani dokumentia,<br />

Tundac imis dasturad, rom biZina ivaniSvili<br />

eqvsi wlis winaTac, anu maSin, rodesac<br />

politikaSi mosvlas arc apirebda, imave<br />

Rirebulebebsa da faseulobebs emsaxureboda,<br />

romelTa damkvidrebas dRes, rogorc politikosi,<br />

qarTul sinamdvileSi cdilobs.<br />

aqve gTavazobT biZina ivaniSvilis mcire<br />

komentars am interviusTan dakavSirebiT:<br />

`bednieri var, rom sufTa warsuli maqvs<br />

da garwmunebT, xelisuflebis ideologebs<br />

vesti~ arc ki adasturebdnen, rom es<br />

struqturebi Tqven gekuTvniT?<br />

_ arasodes damirRvevia kanoni da<br />

dasamalic araferi maqvs. ubralod,<br />

`perestroikis~ dasawyisSive, Cven<br />

yvelani, biznesmenebi, samwuxarod,<br />

daZabulad vcxovrobdiT imis gamo,<br />

rom SesaZloa, Cvens bizness rame damuqreboda.<br />

Tuki sakuTari personiTa<br />

da qonebiT yuradRebas ar miipyrobdi,<br />

biznesis marTvac ufro mSvidad<br />

SeiZleboda.<br />

_ 90-iani wlebis dasawyisSi ruseTSi<br />

marTlac daZabuli mdgomareoba<br />

iyo, magram sazRvargareT yvela<br />

biznesmeni rodi miemgzavreboda<br />

TqvensaviT. rodis waxvediT qveynidan<br />

da ratom?<br />

_ ruseTidan pirvelad 1993<br />

wels, saqarTveloSi Cemi Zmis gatacebis<br />

Semdeg wavedi. misTvis gamosasyids<br />

iTxovdnen. erTi Tve hyavdaT,<br />

magram gamosasyidi ar gadamixdia,<br />

radganac analogiur safrTxeSi Cavagdebdi<br />

Cems mSoblebs, debs. SemdgomSi<br />

maTTvis xeli aravis uxlia.<br />

CemTan ki saqarTvelodan sxvadasxva<br />

saxelmwifo moxele Camodioda, romlebic<br />

Cemi Zmis moZebnaSi daxmarebas<br />

cdilobdnen, TanamSromlobas mTavazobdnen.<br />

ar msurda maTi SemoSveba<br />

Cems biznesSi da maTTan urTierTobis<br />

Tavidan asacileblad gadavwyvite,<br />

formalurad banks CamovSorebodi:<br />

ganvacxade, rom bankis prezidentis<br />

Tanamdebobas vtovebdi, 1994 wels ki<br />

6 TviT ojaxTan erTad axlobelTan<br />

amerikis SeerTebul StatebSi gavemgzavre.<br />

saqarTvelSi viTareba ar iyo<br />

mSvidi, TiTqos sazRvargareT ufro<br />

SeiZleboda wynarad cxovreba; vfiqrobdiT,<br />

Svilebis gulisTvis, maTi<br />

momavlisTvis egeb Rirdes aqedan gamgzavreba.<br />

virCevdiT qveyanas, romelic<br />

yvelaze metad mogvewoneboda.<br />

safrangeTi SevarCieT, parizis siaxloves<br />

saxli viyideT. Tumca iq mudmivad<br />

ar vcxovrobdiT, biznesis gamo,<br />

gansakuTrebiT ki defoltis Semdeg,<br />

ZiriTadad moskovSi gviwevda<br />

yofna.<br />

saerTo gazeTi<br />

TavianTi mcdelobani sikeTes ver moutans.<br />

mudmivad iseT gvarebs atrialeben, romelic<br />

cnobili araa saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis.<br />

mudmivad cdiloben, xalxs eWvi gauCinon Cemze.<br />

erTaderT interviuSi, romelic gazeT<br />

`vedomosts~ miveci, yvela es gvaria dasaxelebuli<br />

da pasuxic iqvea gacemuli. es ambavi karga<br />

xania warsuls Cahbarda. Jurnalistebma ma-<br />

Sin verc erTi Savi xazi ver mipoves. erTi Tve<br />

ar beWdavdnen Cems intervius. ver warmoedginaT,<br />

rom ruseTSi SeiZleboda aseTi kaci yofiliyo,<br />

Tanac qarTuli gvariT. rogorc aq ar<br />

vCndebodi, ufro metad ar vCandi ruseTSi.<br />

didxans elodnen Cem gamoCenas, amis Semdgom<br />

yvela sainformacio saSualebam gaaSuqa es interviu,<br />

grami eWvic ki aravis Seutania Cems<br />

naTqvamSi, radgan interviuSi imdenad gulwrfelad<br />

maqvs pasuxebi gacemuli, eWvis natamalic<br />

ki ar rCeboda.~<br />

darwmunebuli varT, es interviu biZina<br />

ivaniSvilis oponentebs erTxel da samudamod<br />

daukargavs usafuZvlo braldebebis da samarcxvino<br />

Woraobis xasiaTs.<br />

`ar megona, rom<br />

miliarderi<br />

gavxdebodi~<br />

_ miuxedavad amisa, safrangeTis<br />

moqalaqeoba mainc miiReT?<br />

_ colma da Svilebma miiRes, me _<br />

ara, radgan es did dros wamarTmevda:<br />

gasaubreba da aTasi sxva ram iyo<br />

saWiro.<br />

_ ar nanobT, rom adre intervius<br />

ar iZleodiT? nuTu gulgrilad<br />

uyurebdiT imas, rasac Tqvenze werdnen?<br />

_ rasakvirvelia, ara. ruseTis<br />

masmediisgan gansxvavebiT, qarTvel<br />

JurnalistTa mudmivi yuradRebis<br />

centrSi viyavi. zogierTi maTgani dasabeWdad<br />

iyenebda masalas internetidan,<br />

sadac karga xnis ganmavlobaSi<br />

ganTavsebuli iyo TiTqosda jguf<br />

`mostis~ usafrTxoebis samsaxuris<br />

monacemebze dayrdnobiT Sedgenili<br />

Cemi dosie. odesRac seriozul konkurencias<br />

vuwevdiT `most-banks~,<br />

amitomac ar iyo gasakviri, rom es<br />

dosie `rosiiski kreditsa~ da piradad<br />

Cemze aTasgvar sisuleles Seicavda,<br />

Tanac es yvelaferi kriminaluri<br />

Jargonis gamoyenebiT iwereboda.<br />

dosie imdenad araseriozuli iyo,<br />

rom igi ruseTis arc erT gazeTs ar<br />

gamouyenebia. SevardnaZis dros qarTveli<br />

Jurnalistebi ganurCevlad<br />

lanRavdnen yvelas da maT Soris mec,<br />

amitomac maT statiebs yuradRebas<br />

ar vaqcevdi. axali xelisuflebis<br />

mosvlidan erT <strong>weli</strong>wadSi Cem Sesaxeb<br />

werilebis gamoqveyneba ganaxlda<br />

da swored maSin pirvelad movaxdine<br />

maTze reagireba: SarSan, noemberSi,<br />

Cems samsaxurebs davavale gaegoT,<br />

ras warmoadgendnen im internet-saitis<br />

mflobelebi, sadac es dosie iyo<br />

12 gv.<br />

11

---

12 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

11 gv.<br />

ganTavsebuli. pirvelwyaros mflobelebma<br />

_ gamoZiebis federalurma saagentom<br />

_ amoiRo dosie da bodiSic<br />

moixada.<br />

_ anu, rac iq weria, simarTle ar<br />

aris?<br />

_ im dosies mTavari `sensacia~ is<br />

aris, TiTqos me oTar kvantriSvil-<br />

Tan viyavi dakavSirebuli, yalbi avizoebiT<br />

da msgavsi erToblivi saqmianobiT<br />

viyaviT dakavebuli. es sruli<br />

bodvaa. 90-iani wlebis dasawyisSi,<br />

roca bankebis umravlesoba, maT Soris<br />

saxelmwifo bankebic, waleka<br />

yalbma avizoebma (romelTa meSveobi-<br />

Tac saxelmwifo biujetidan aTobiT<br />

miliardi dolari moipares), didi<br />

Zalisxmevis fasad movaxerxe, rom<br />

`rosiiski krediti~ gamyalbebelTa<br />

saqmianobas win aRdgomoda. Cemi banki<br />

aRmoCnda erTaderTi, romelsac arc<br />

erTi avizo ar gautarebia.<br />

kvantriSvilis, benduqiZis, maRra-<br />

Zis, seliaSvilis gundTan Cemi dakav-<br />

Sireba aseTive bodvaa. arc erT maTgans<br />

ar vicnobdi. qarTvel Jurnalistebs,<br />

romlebsac dRemde mosvenebas<br />

ar aZlevT kvantriSvilTan Cemi<br />

urTierTobis eWvi, SeeZloT CaetarebinaT<br />

arc ise rTuli Jurnalisturi<br />

gamoZieba, daewyoT Tundac kvantriSvilis<br />

cnobili axloblebisgan. arc<br />

saqarTveloSi, arc ruseTSi problemas<br />

ar warmoadgens kvantriSvilis<br />

naTesavebis, megobrebis, `rosiiski<br />

kreditis~ TanamSromelTa moZebna.<br />

dae, ipovon Tundac erTi mowme an<br />

mtkicebuleba, rom piradad me an Cems<br />

struqturebs kvantriSvilTan iotisodena<br />

Sexeba mainc gvqonia! arian<br />

iseTi qarTveli Jurnalistebi, romlebic<br />

Cemze saubrisas iyeneben aseT<br />

gamoTqmas _ `vinme ivaniSvili~, sxvebi<br />

weren, rom me `saorientaciod~<br />

Tbilisis saxelmwifo universiteti<br />

davamTavre, zogierTi Cemi gvaris<br />

xsenebisas sxvis fotoebs beWdavs.<br />

JurnalistTa sxva kategoria im biznes-centrs,<br />

romelsac TbilisSi va-<br />

Seneb, saroskipos uwodeben. ra aer-<br />

TianebT maT? yvelani TiTqos uaRresad<br />

aRSfoTebuli arian, rom Cemze<br />

informaciis mopoveba uWirT. es xom<br />

mzakvrobaa. qarTvelze, romelic daibada<br />

saqarTveloSi, romelsac mSoblebi,<br />

uamravi naTesavi da megobari<br />

hyavs, absoluturad yvelafris gageba<br />

SeiZleba, Tanac uswrafesad. arasodes<br />

mimimarTavs sasamarTlosTvis<br />

Cemi Rirsebisa da pativis dasacavad,<br />

radgan arasodes damikargavs arc er-<br />

Ti, yovelTvis sindisis karnaxiT<br />

vcxovrobdi.<br />

`armirebuli Slangebis<br />

gamoSveba mindoda~<br />

_ romeli qveynis moqlaqe xarT?<br />

_ ruseTisa da saqarTvelosi.<br />

_ axla sad cxovrobT?<br />

_ momenatra saqarTvelo da erTi<br />

wlis win ojaxTan erTad sacxovreblad<br />

gadavedi im sofelSi, sadac bav-<br />

Svoba gavatare. ojaxi CemTvis upirvelesia.<br />

mamaCemi axlaxan gardaicvala,<br />

deda xanSiSesulia, mominda mis<br />

gverdiT yofna. axali sacxovrebeli<br />

im saxlis gverdiT avaSene, sadac<br />

mSoblebTan erTad vcxovrobdi. vfiqrob,<br />

iq karga xniT davsaxldi.<br />

_ gviambeT, ras saqmianobdiT, vidre<br />

`roskredits~ daafuZnebdiT?<br />

_ me qalaq WiaTuris axlos, so-<br />

fel WorvilaSi davibade. mamaCemi me-<br />

Saxted muSaobda `WiaTurmarganec-<br />

Si~, romelic, sxvaTaA Soris, axlaxan<br />

rusulma `evrazholdingma~ iyida.<br />

skolis damTavrebis Semdeg TbilisSi<br />

wavedi _ Tbilisis saxelmwifo<br />

universitetSi sainJinro-ekonomikur<br />

fakultetze vswavlobdi, imavdroulad<br />

kamos saxelobis samsxmelo-meqanikur<br />

qarxanaSi vmuSaobdi<br />

damlageblad, damxmare muSad, SemdgomSi<br />

ki _ mxexavad. universiteti<br />

warmatebiT davamTavre da samuSaod<br />

imave qarxanaSi davrCi, oRond _ jer<br />

ufros inJinrad, Semdeg ki Sromis<br />

mecnieruli organizaciis laboratoriis<br />

ufrosad. 1982 wels moskovSi<br />

gavemgzavre Sromis samecniero-kvleviTi<br />

institutis aspiraturaSi saswavleblad,<br />

ramdenime wlis Semdeg<br />

davicavi disertacia specialobiT<br />

`Sromis mecnieruli organizacia da<br />

ekonomika~. TbilisSi samecnierokvleviTi<br />

institutis adgilobriv<br />

ganyofilebaSi davbrundi. da maleve<br />

Cemi pirveli biznesis organizeba daviwye.<br />

_ rogor gagiCndaT biznesis<br />

idea?<br />

_ ras warmoadgenda 80-iani wlebis<br />

bolos ufrosi mecnier-muSaki?<br />

arc saintereso samuSao iyo da arc<br />

perspeqtivas uCanda piri. bina ar<br />

mqonda, arc ojaxi, samsxmelo-meqanikuri<br />

qarxnis saerTo sacxovrebelSi<br />

vcxovrobdi. rasakvirvelia, maSin azradac<br />

ar momsvlia, rom banks davaarsebdi<br />

da miliarderi gavxdebodi.<br />

ubralod, mqonda survili, fuli me-<br />

Sova. gadavwyvite, gamomeSva im droisTvis<br />

deficituri armirebuli<br />

Slangebi. davaregistrire kooperativi,<br />

kamos saxelobis qarxanaSi Senoba<br />

ijariT aviRe da warmoebisTvis<br />

mzadebas Sevudeqi. saRamoobiT Tavad<br />

vCarxavdi saWiro detalebs, magram<br />

Slangebis gamoSvebamde saqme ar misula<br />

_ kompiuterebiT vaWrobas movkide<br />

xeli.<br />

_ ratom maincdamainc kompiuterebi?<br />

_ vaanalizebdi, savaWro sferoSi<br />

ra iqneboda warmatebis momtani da<br />

davaskveni _ momavali kompiuterebs<br />

ekuTvnoda. maTze moTxovnileba didi<br />

iyo, magram Sovna Wirda.<br />

davukavSirdi sazRvargareT wasul<br />

nacnob Tbilisel ebraelebs,<br />

romlebsac gauxardaT biznesis wamowyeba.<br />

kompiuterebis gamogzavna<br />

daiwyes, pirvelma saqarTvelos mecnierebaTa<br />

akademiam iyida; magram saqarTvelos<br />

prokuraturas ar moewona<br />

Cemi aqtiuroba, is, rom pirvelive<br />

garigebiT Cemi kooperativis angariSze<br />

erT milion rublze meti Cairicxa<br />

da prokuraturam Cems angariSebs<br />

yadaRa daado. mivxvdi, aq gasaqans<br />

ar momcemdnen da moskovSi gadabargeba<br />

gadavwyvite.<br />

jer kidev aspiranturaSi swavlisas<br />

gavicani vitali malkini, romelic<br />

maSin moskovis rkinigzis institutis<br />

aspiranti iyo. erT students<br />

me maTematikaSi vuwevdi repetitorobas,<br />

vitali _ fizikaSi. roca<br />

moskovSi davbrundi, malkini ukve<br />

CarTuli iyo biznesSi _ raRacis gadayidviT<br />

iyo dakavebuli, kafes gaxsnas<br />

cdilobda, magram me organizebuli<br />

biznesi _ kompiuterebiT vaWroba<br />

SevTavaze.<br />

malkins rkinigzis institutidan<br />

hyavda megobrebi _ docenti sergei<br />

mosini da aleqsandr briancevi. isini<br />

naro-fominskSi saTburebs aSenebdnen,<br />

maT kooperativi `agroprogresi~<br />

hqondaT. axali kooperativis daregistrirebaze<br />

dro rom ar daxarjuliyo,<br />

`agroprogresis~ meSveobiT<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

vvaWrobdiT. yvelas Tanabari wili<br />

gvqonda. es iyo 1988 <strong>weli</strong>. ulifto<br />

SenobaSi, mexuTe sarTulze, samoTaxian<br />

binaSi erTi oTaxi viqiraveT _<br />

es iyo Cveni ofisic da sawyobic.<br />

sruli svliT miiwevda biznesi win,<br />

romelic im dros sxvanairad ewyoboda:<br />

bevri ram ndobas efuZneboda, did<br />

Tanxas winaswar vricxavdiT. SemdgomSi<br />

vaWroba daviwyeT agreTve qseroqsebiT,<br />

magnitofonebiTa da telefonebiT.<br />

imdroindel moskovSi uamravi<br />

ucxoeli cxovrobda, romlebic<br />

aTasnair saqonels gvTavazobdnen, piradad<br />

CemTan jgrod, jguf-jgufad<br />

modiodnen, magram vxedavdi, rom yvelani<br />

TaRliTebi iyvnen. amitomac<br />

Cvenve wavediT sazRvargareT partniorebis<br />

mosaZebnad. SevityveT, rom parizSi<br />

mimdinareobda maRalteqnologiuri<br />

produqciis gamofena. swored<br />

iq davekontaqteT honkongis erT-erT<br />

firmas da maTTan gavemgzavreT _<br />

garwmunebT, Cven viyaviT pirveli<br />

biznesmenebi ruseTidan, romlebic<br />

honkongSi Cavidnen. maTTan gavaformeT<br />

Cveni pirveli didi kontraqti.<br />

teqnikas mTlianad CineTSi amzadebdnen,<br />

gavriskeT da CineTSi Rilakebiani<br />

telefonebisa da kasetiani magnitofonebis<br />

fabrika SeviZineT. 1990<br />

wels Cveni kompania erT-erTi udidesi<br />

iyo eleqtronuli teqnikiT vaWrobis<br />

dargSi, Tumca sxvebic mixvdnen,<br />

rom es momgebiani biznesi iyo da<br />

amitomac gadavwyviteT, sxva saqme wamogvewyo.<br />

swored im periodSi gaCnda<br />

pirveli kerZo bankebi, 1990 wels<br />

`rosiiski krediti~ davaregistrireT.<br />

_ eleqtronuli teqnikiT vaWrobis<br />

garda, sxva biznesic gqondaT?<br />

bankis Seqmnisas ra kapitali daagroveT?<br />

_ sxva biznesi ar gvqonia. `rosiiski<br />

kreditis~ gaxsnisas 100-120<br />

aTasi dolari gvqonda. es didi fuli<br />

iyo, amiT ramdenime bankis gaxsna<br />

SeiZleboda. briancevi am saqmeSi ar<br />

gamogvyva, gviTxra, uamisodac mdidari<br />

varo da saTburebis mSenebloba<br />

ganagrZo. me, malkinma da mosinma wili<br />

Tanabrad gavinawileT. SemdgomSi<br />

mosinis wili gamovisyide da amgvarad,<br />

me bankis 67 procenti mekuTvnoda,<br />

malkins _ 33 procenti.<br />

_ ra wili aqvs axla malkins banksa<br />

da samrewvelo sawarmoebSi?<br />

_ man Tavisi wili orive bankSi<br />

SeinarCuna, zogierT samrewvelo<br />

obieqtSi misi wili ki axlaxan gamovisyide.<br />

`Cven, ubralod, imas<br />

vakeTebdiT, rasac<br />

sxvebi ar akeTebdnen~<br />

_ gviambeT, rogor daiwyeT sabanko<br />

biznesi, rogor moaxerxa `rosiiski<br />

kreditma~, liderebSi moxvedriliyo?<br />

_ bankis pirveli ofisi sabavSvo<br />

baRis SenobaSi ganvaTavseT da dRe-<br />

RameSi 24-ive saaTi vmuSaobdiT. vidre<br />

bankSi asamde TanamSromeli iyo,<br />

nebismier, Tundac umniSvnelo gadawyvetilebas<br />

piradad me viRebdi.<br />

maSin krediti yovelgvari uzrunvelyofis<br />

gareSe gaicemoda, SesaZlebeli<br />

iyo, igi ar daebrunebinaT, amitomac<br />

TviTon unda gadamewyvita,<br />

visTvis migveca krediti da visTvis<br />

_ ara. Cven, ubralod, imas vakeTeb-

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

diT, rasac sxvebi ar akeTebdnen. naRdi<br />

fulis (valutis) gayidvis moculobis<br />

TvalsazrisiT pirvelebi viyaviT:<br />

Cven, magaliTad, sagangebod vukveTavdiT<br />

dolaris axal kupiurebs,<br />

vxsnidiT valutis sacalo gayidvis<br />

sabiTumo centrebs.<br />

saerTodac, maSin bevr rames intuicia<br />

wyvetda. maSinve mivxvdi, rom<br />

fsoni filialebis qselze unda dagvedo.<br />

saamisod unda mogvegvarebina<br />

ori sakvanZo problema _ mogveZebna<br />

Senoba da kadrebi. erTxel, mTeli<br />

Ramis ganmavlobaSi vfiqrobdi amis<br />

Sesaxeb, diliT ki mzad mqonda gadawyvetileba.<br />

Cven mivdiodiT sawarmoebis,<br />

institutebis direqtorebTan<br />

da vTanxmdebodiT _ isini gamogviyofdnen<br />

Senobas, Cven ki maT organizaciebs<br />

bankis mewileobas vTavazobdiT<br />

(2-2 procents vaZlevdiT), SemdgomSi<br />

isini Cveni klientebi xdebodnen.<br />

me davaarse pirveli sabanko<br />

koleji ruseTSi, romelic Cveni bankis<br />

momaval TanamSromlebs amzadebda.<br />

pirvel etapze leqciebsac Tavad<br />

vkiTxulobdi. Tumca yvelaze mTavari,<br />

riTac vamayob, is aris, rom bankSi<br />

SevqmeniT unikaluri korporaciuli<br />

suliskveTeba, maSindel TanamSromelTa<br />

umravlesoba dResac bankSi<br />

muSaobs.<br />

_ Tqven periodulad miemgzavrebodiT<br />

qveynidan, bolo <strong>weli</strong>wad-naxevari<br />

ki mudmivad cxovrobT saqarTveloSi.<br />

rogor marTavT bizness, ra<br />

sakiTxebs wyvetT piradad Tqven?<br />

_ `rosiiski kreditis~ Seqmnis<br />

dRidan moyolebuli dRevandlamde,<br />

me erTdroulad misi aqcioneric var<br />

da top-menejeric, ruseTSi sxvanairad<br />

ar SeiZleba. banki davaarse Tu<br />

ara, pirveli 4 <strong>weli</strong>wadi piradad vakontrolebdi<br />

yvelafers, rac iq<br />

xdeboda. roca biznesi gafarTovda,<br />

marTvis kolegialuri stili davnerge.<br />

axla, umeteswilad, strategiuli<br />

sakiTxebis mogvarebaze var koncentrirebuli,<br />

magram vici yvelaferi, Tu<br />

ra xdeba biznesis yvela mimarTulebiT.<br />

axlac ki, sadac unda vimyofebode,<br />

yoveldRiurad sul cota 4 saaTs<br />

samuSao sakiTxebis mogvarebas<br />

vandomeb.<br />

_ ra funqciebi hqonda malkins?<br />

_ igi warmomadgenlobiT funqciebs<br />

asrulebda: warmoadgenda banks<br />

saxelmwifo struqturebSi, Cem magivrad<br />

dadioda formalur Sexvedrebze,<br />

araformalur RonisZiebebze.<br />

igi arasodes wyvetda, forsirebulad<br />

biznesis ra mimarTuleba unda<br />

ganviTarebuliyo, raze gveTqva uari,<br />

ra gveyida, ra gagveyida, rogor SegverCia<br />

kadrebi da ranairad gvemarTa<br />

igi. es Cemi gasakeTebeli iyo, vitalim<br />

TviTonac icoda, rom am sakiTxebSi<br />

kompetenturi ar iyo.<br />

orivem erTad daviwyeT biznesi,<br />

maSin aravin icoda, ra SeeZlo mas.<br />

vitali Cemi megobaria, mas arasodes<br />

uRalatia CemTvis, amitomac igi<br />

kvlavac Cemi partnioria, me ki moxaruli<br />

var, rom megobari mdidar kacad<br />

vaqcie.<br />

_ vasili anisimovs, romelsac<br />

`rosiiski kreditSi~ vice-prezidentis<br />

Tanamdeboba ekava, bankSi wili<br />

hqonda?<br />

_ anisimovis kuTvnili qarxnebi<br />

msxvili klientebi iyvnen bankisa,<br />

magram igi misi mesakuTre arasodes<br />

yofila. me partniorebi myavda sam-<br />

rewvelo sawarmoebSi, bankSi ki, Tu<br />

ar CavTvliT maT, vinc Senobis sanacvlod<br />

wili miiRo, Tanamflobeli<br />

mxolod malkini gaxldaT. TiToeul<br />

msvil klients mewileoba surda,<br />

magram yvelas uariT vistumrebdi. saerTod,<br />

vcdilob, partniorobas Tavi<br />

avarido. CemTvis partniori Zalzed<br />

seriozuli sakiTxia, Tanac arsebobs<br />

riski, rom partniori mogatyuebs.<br />

_ roca Tqven bizness iwyebdiT,<br />

nebismieri struqtura, romelic<br />

fuls Soulobda, banditebis yuradRebas<br />

ipyrobda. Tqven Tu gadawydomixarT<br />

msgavs problemebs?<br />

_ Cven metismetad adre daviwyeT<br />

kompiuterebis biznesi, reketirebi<br />

im dros Tvlemdnen da is<br />

momenti ubralod gamorCaT. bankSi<br />

ki marTlac gvqonda msgavsi problemebi.<br />

erTi ram SesaniSnavad vici:<br />

sakmarisia, erTxel gaurigde<br />

maT (banditebs) da samudamod daukavSirdebi.<br />

gavuZeli da sxvaTa<br />

Soris, Cemi mTavari damsaxurebaa,<br />

rom Cems biznesSi ar SemomiSvia<br />

aravin, vinc banditad miaCniaT.<br />

mogvianebiT vTanamSromlobdi samarTaldamcav<br />

struqturebTan.<br />

1993 wels, ruseTis organizebul<br />

danaSaulTan brZolis sammarTvelos<br />

(ÐÓÁÎÏ) xelmZRvanelis<br />

vladimir ruSailos TanadgomiT<br />

(igi Cemi Zmis povnaSi damexmara),<br />

am sammarTveloSi Cemi iniciativiT<br />

Seiqmna struqtura, romelsac Cemi<br />

banki, mogvianebiT ki bevri sxva<br />

komerciuli struqturac afinansebda.<br />

sakmarisi iyo dagvereka, rom<br />

misi TanamSromlebi umal adgilze<br />

mosuliyvnen. es struqtura didi<br />

xnis ganmavlobaSi efeqtianad mu-<br />

Saobda. 1997 wels kreditebis daubruneblobis<br />

problemas gadavawydiT;<br />

imis nacvlad, rom dagvxmarebodnen,<br />

am sammarTvelos TanamSromlebi<br />

Cveni mevaleebisgan qrTams iRebdnen.<br />

amis gamo am struqturis maSindel<br />

xelmZRvanels aleqsandr kaCuras<br />

vuTxari, rom TanamSromlobas<br />

vwyvetdi.<br />

_ magram im dros xom SeuZlebeli<br />

iyo biznesis warmarTva, Tuki saxelmwifo<br />

moxeleebsa da imave banditebs<br />

Soris `kriSa~ ar geqnebodaT?<br />

_ SesaZlebeli ki iyo, magram<br />

imavdroulad _ rTulic. Cveni banki<br />

arasodes moiazreboda egreT wodebul<br />

`blatian~ bankebs Soris. gadaricxvebis<br />

raodenobiT `rosiiski<br />

krediti~ ruseTis Semnaxvel banksac<br />

ki aWarbebda. es miuTiTebs imaze, rom<br />

Cveni ZiriTadi sayrdeni wvrili da<br />

saSualo klientura iyo. saxelmwifo<br />

moxeleTaAmfarvelobiTac arasdros<br />

misargeblia.<br />

_ erTma saxelmwifo moxelem mainc<br />

moutana sargebeli Tqvens banks.<br />

roca evgeni biCkovi `roskomdragmets~<br />

(Zvirfasi liTonebisa da qvebis<br />

ruseTis komiteti _ mTargmn.)<br />

xelmZRvanelobda, `roskreditma~ mo-<br />

axerxa, oqros bazarze msxvili moTamaSe<br />

gamxdariyo, mogvianebiT ki biCkovi<br />

bankis vice-prezidentad dainiSna.<br />

_ bankTan biCkovis kavSirs Sesabamisi<br />

saxelmwifo uwyeba amowmebda da<br />

ver moZebna veranairi darRveva, rac<br />

mas, rogorc Cinovniks, SeeZlo mosvloda.<br />

biCkovi bankisTvis sasargeblo<br />

mxolod imiT aRmoCnda, rom oriode<br />

klienti SesZina mas.<br />

_ `rosiiski krediti~ da `metaloinvesti~<br />

bevr mravalprofilian<br />

aqtivs flobda. romeli biznesi aRmoCnda<br />

yvelaze ufro momgebiani?<br />

_ rentabelobiT _ stoilenskis<br />

samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinati, Cadebuli<br />

kapitalis ukugebiT _ qarxana<br />

`kauCuki~. misi aqciebi 1991 wels<br />

150 aTas dolarad viyideT, misi gayidviT<br />

ki sul cota 500 milion<br />

dolars miviRebT. qarxana mdebareobs<br />

moskovis centrSi did teritoriaze,<br />

sadac sul male didi mSenebloba ga-<br />

CaRdeba.<br />

_ rodis da ra principiT yidulobdiT<br />

samrewvelo sawarmoebs?<br />

_ daiwyo privatizacia, banks fuli<br />

hqonda, piradad vecnobodi gasayidad<br />

gamotanil sawarmoTa sias, vafasebdi<br />

maT maCveneblebs, perspeqtivas.<br />

arCevanis dro mqonda erTaderTi<br />

SezRudva: arasodes vacxadebdi pretenzias<br />

iseT aqtivebze, romlis gamoc,<br />

SesaZloa, kriminaluri omi ga-<br />

CaRebuli da amiT sakuTari da Cemi<br />

TanamSromlebis sicocxlisTvis safrTxe<br />

Semeqmna. amitomac banki navTobis,<br />

aluminis da foladsasxmel sawarmoebs<br />

ar yidulobda.<br />

_ `rosiiski krediti~ giravnobis<br />

bevr auqcionSi iRebda monawileobas,<br />

magram arasodes gaumarjvia. ratom?<br />

saerTo gazeTi<br />

_ banks giravnobis auqcionebSi<br />

gancxadeba imitom ki ar Sehqonda,<br />

rom gasayid aqtivebze kontroli moepovebina,<br />

aramed imisTvis, rom auqcionebi<br />

CaeSala. Cven rom mogvego,<br />

aqciebs saxelmwifos davubrunebdiT.<br />

maSin komunistebi privatizacias<br />

utevdnen, giravnobis auqcionebi maT<br />

mniSvnelovan `kozirs~ aZlevda, arsebobda<br />

riski, rom isini mTlianad<br />

privatizaciis process CaSlidnen.<br />

privatizaciis kanonebi xom naCqarevad<br />

iwereboda, arasrulyofili iyo,<br />

xolo giravnobis auqcionze qonebis<br />

gayidva sulac ukanonoba iyo.<br />

`ar megona, rom<br />

miliarderi<br />

gavxdebodi~<br />

_ anu Tqven privatizaciis<br />

gadarCenas cdilobdiT?<br />

_ ara marto amas. giravnobis<br />

auqcionebi bazarze arsebuli<br />

Zalebis balanss arRvevda da gamarjvebulebi<br />

CemTan SedarebiT<br />

ukanono upiratesobiT sargeblobdnen.<br />

rasakvirvelia, mindoda<br />

amisTvis xeli SemeSala. xmaurs<br />

vtexdi, rom Cemi pozicia<br />

mTavrobis, prezidentis yuramde<br />

misuliyo, magram seriozuli<br />

mtrebi SeviZine mxolod. im<br />

dros mimdinare saxelmwifo sa-<br />

TaTbiros arCevnebSi kraxi ganicada<br />

moZraobam `naS dom _ rasia~,<br />

romlis lideric maSindeli<br />

premieri viqtor Cernomirdini<br />

gaxldaT. aman elcinis kritika<br />

gamoiwvia da rogorc imdroindeli<br />

ministrTa kabinetis<br />

erT-erTi wevri miyveboda, Cernomirdini<br />

Tavs imarTlebda da<br />

arCevnebSi damarcxebis mizezad<br />

giravnobis auqcionebis winaaRmdeg<br />

Cvens gamosvlebsa da masmediaSi<br />

atexil xmaurs asaxelebda.<br />

marTalia, ar SemiZlia, vamtkico,<br />

rom arsebobda Cernomirdinis<br />

pirdapiri miTiTeba, magram er-<br />

Ti kviris ganmavlobaSi, TiTqmis er-<br />

Tdroulad (amis damadasturebeli<br />

dokumentacia SemorCenili maqvs),<br />

mogvakiTxa ruseTSi arsebulma yvela<br />

makontrolebelma struqturam: savaluto<br />

kontrolma, raionisa da qalaqis<br />

sagadasaxado inspeqciebma, sagadasaxado<br />

policiam, safinanso kontrolma,<br />

centralurma bankma. da es<br />

yvelaferi arCevnebis damTavrebamde<br />

moxda. yvelaze metad sagadasaxado<br />

policia aqtiurobda _ banks erT<br />

welze meti xnis ganmavlobaSi amowmebda,<br />

magram aranairi darRveva ar<br />

upovia. amitomac sagadasaxado policia<br />

cdilobda, zemoqmedeba moexdina<br />

saerTaSoriso auditorze (Arthur<br />

Andersen) da maTgan bankis Sesaxeb<br />

dokumentebi moepovebina, winaaRmdeg<br />

SemTxvevaSi, ruseTSi muSaobis akr-<br />

ZalviT emuqreboda. sagadasaxado policiis<br />

maSindel ufross (sergei)<br />

almazovs maSinve davureke. Cven SevxvdiT<br />

erTmaneTs da arasdros damaviwydeba<br />

is saubari. vcdilobdi, ga-<br />

14 gv.<br />

13

---

14 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

13 gv.<br />

mego, ratom xulignoben misi TanamSromlebi,<br />

banki xom isedac yvelanair<br />

dokuments aZlevda, man ki mipasuxa:<br />

`yvelaferi kargad geqnebaT, oRond<br />

miTxari, rogor axerxeb Cemi TanamSromlebis<br />

mosyidvas? ukve mesamed<br />

vcvli Cems saukeTeso personals,<br />

romlebic Sen gamowmeben, da veranair<br />

Sedegs ver miaRwies~. gamikvirda,<br />

Tavidan verc mivxvdi, ras gulisxmobda.<br />

ganmimarta: `rogor axerxeb<br />

maT gadabirebas da maTTan garigebas?~<br />

vupasuxe: `RmerTma damifaros!<br />

sagadasaxado policiasTan arasdros<br />

milaparakia da arc momavalSi vapireb<br />

amas. Zalian kargad mesmis, rom<br />

es yvelaferi Tqven SegikveTes!~ man,<br />

rasakvirvelia, ar aRiara,<br />

dakveTa rom hqonda. ase dav-<br />

SordiT erTmaneTs.<br />

_ Zneli dasajerebelia,<br />

rom Tqven ideuri mosazrebebis<br />

gamo yvelaze msxvil garigebebSi<br />

ar monawileobdiT...<br />

_ miuxedavad amisa, asea.<br />

magaliTad, giravnobis auqcionebis<br />

Semdeg erT <strong>weli</strong>wadSi<br />

tiumenis navTobkombinatis<br />

(ÒÍÊ) saxelmwifo paketi<br />

iyideboda. paketis naxevarze<br />

pretenzias acxadebda mixail<br />

fridmani da german xani, viktor<br />

vekselbergma SemomTavaza,<br />

meore naxevari erTad gveyida.<br />

davTanxmdi da masTan<br />

erTad auqcionisTvis ori<br />

Tvis ganmavlobaSi vemzadebodi;<br />

magram navTobkombinatis<br />

direqtorma viqtor paliim am<br />

auqcionis mizanSewonilobis<br />

gamo xmauri atexa da sul<br />

bolo momentSi masSi monawileobaze<br />

uari ganvacxade.<br />

_ vekselbergma da `alfajgufma~<br />

tiumenis navTobkombinatis<br />

meSveobiT didi fuli<br />

iSoves. ar nanobT, rom mis yidvaze<br />

uari ganacxadeT?<br />

_ ar SemeZlo, monawileoba mime-<br />

Ro iseT garigebaSi, romlis kanonierebaSi<br />

iotisodena eWvi mepareboda.<br />

mogitanT kidev erT magaliTs: sainvesticio<br />

konkursze Cems partniorebTan<br />

erTad mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli<br />

kombinatis 20 procenti<br />

SeviZine. sul male sainvesticio<br />

programaSi aRmoCnda uzusto gaTvlebi,<br />

kanonmdebloba ki programis<br />

Secvlis uflebas ar iZleoda da misi<br />

TviTneburad Secvla arc Cven<br />

gvicdia. amitomac aqciebi saxelmwifos<br />

davubruneT. garwmunebT, saxelmwifo<br />

sakuTrebaSi aqciebis nebayoflobiTi<br />

dabrunebis sxva SemTxvevas<br />

ver ipoviT. mxolod <strong>weli</strong>wadnaxevris<br />

Semdeg movaxerxeT da fulis<br />

auqcionze am kombinatis aqciebi xelaxla<br />

gamovisyideT. me sruliad<br />

gansxvavebuli taqtika mqonda: vyidulobdi<br />

iseT aqtivebs, romlisTvisac<br />

brZola ar iyo saWiro, romelsac sa-<br />

Tanadod ar afasebdnen an saerTodac<br />

wamgebiani iyo. yvelani foladsamsxmelo<br />

sawarmoebisTvis ibrZodnen,<br />

nedleulis mimwodeblebi ki aravis<br />

ainteresebda; maSin viyide mixailovskis,<br />

stoilenskis, lebedinskis sam-<br />

To-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebi.<br />

_ samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebi<br />

axla foladsamsxmel sawarmoebs<br />

aWarbeben, rentabelobiT romeli<br />

aRwevs 500 procentamde?<br />

_ marTlac iyo aseTi rentabelo-<br />

`ar megona, rom<br />

miliarderi<br />

gavxdebodi~<br />

ba, magram samTo-gamamdidrebelma kombinatebma<br />

didi mogeba sam-oTx <strong>weli</strong>wadSi<br />

moitana. manamde ki xuTi-eqvsi<br />

<strong>weli</strong>wadi gvixdeboda maTi subsidireba,<br />

am kombinatebis TanamSromlebisTvis<br />

xelfasic ki moskovidan migvqonda.<br />

metalurgebi kombinatebs karnaxobdnen,<br />

ra fasad Seisyiddnen ned-<br />

leuls da Cveulebisamebr, TviTRirebulebaze<br />

ufro iafad yidulobdnen.<br />

viTarebis Sesacvlelad didi Zalisxmeva<br />

damWirda: Cemi iniciativiT, ruseTis<br />

samTo-gamamdidrebelma kombinatebma<br />

da yazaxeTis aseTive sawarmom<br />

dades karteluri SeTanxmeba da warmoebis<br />

moculoba Seamcires, anu bazars<br />

zedmeti nedleuli moaciles<br />

da metalurgebi mxolod amis Semdeg<br />

gaxdnen samTo-gamamdidrebel kombinatze<br />

damokidebuli.<br />

_ Tqven ambobT, rom arasodes<br />

CndebodiT iq, sadac riski iyo, 1997<br />

wels ki mainc aRmoCndiT yvelaze<br />

cxel wertilSi _ krasnoiarskis<br />

aluminis qarxanaSi.<br />

_ am qarxnis aqciebi meorad bazarze<br />

viyide, Tanac qarxnis yvelaze<br />

msxvili aqcioneri ar vyofilvar. ise<br />

moxda, rom krasnoiarskSi muSaoba<br />

bevrad adre daviwye, vidre aluminis<br />

qarxanaSi movxvdebodi, jer kidev<br />

1992 wels bankma SeiZina 30 procenti<br />

krasnoiarskis metalurgiuli<br />

qarxnisa, romelic aluminis qarxanas<br />

esazRvreba da sadac aluminis produqcia<br />

mzaddeba. Tumca im momentSi<br />

am qarxniT aravin dainteresebula da<br />

gaCerebuli iyo, radgan aravin aZlevda<br />

metals. es mdgomareoba 1994<br />

wlamde gagrZelda, vidre krasnoiarskis<br />

aluminis qarxnis aqcionerebma<br />

ar miiRes gadawyvetileba, metalurgiuli<br />

qarxnis balansze gadaetanaT<br />

saxelmwifo sakuTreba-<br />

Si arsebuli aluminis qarxnisa<br />

da aCinskis Tixamiwis kombinatis<br />

aqciebis 20 procenti.<br />

_ Tqven xom ar waaSveleT<br />

amas xeli?<br />

_ me araferi vicodi. aluminis<br />

qarxnis mesakuTreebi fiqrobdnen,<br />

rom SemdgomSi am paketebs<br />

gaakontrolebdnen. isini<br />

gaocebulni darCnen, roca<br />

Seityves, rom krasnoiarskis<br />

metalurgiul kombinats msxvili<br />

aqcioneri ukve karga xania<br />

hyavs. maT SemomTavazes am<br />

paketis gayidva da 1996 wels<br />

Zalze Zvirad gavyide. erTi<br />

wlis Semdeg aluminis qarxnis<br />

aqcionerTa Soris Tavi uTanxmoebam<br />

iCina. vasili anisimovi<br />

kargad icnobda sam maTgans _<br />

aleqsandr kolpakovs, vladimir<br />

ratnikovs da oleg kims,<br />

romlebsac aqciebis 28 procenti<br />

ekuTvnodaT. anisimovma<br />

miTxra, rom kolpakovi da<br />

ratnikovi qarxnis aqciebis 48 procentis<br />

myidvelebs eZebdnen, Tumca me<br />

da vasilim maTgan aqciebi mxolod<br />

mas Semdeg viyideT, roca maT anatoli<br />

bikovsa da genadi druJinins 20<br />

procenti daubrunes da bikovi da-<br />

Tanxmda imas, rom Cven yvelani erTad<br />

vimuSavebdiT.<br />

_ ratom daniSneT maSin bikovi<br />

`rosiiski kreditis~ vice-prezidentad?<br />

_ igi arc bankis sabWos wevri<br />

iyo, xelfassac ar Rebulobda da<br />

bankSi aranair rols ar asrulebda.<br />

bankSi yovelTvis bevri vice-prezidenti<br />

iyo _ es Cemi idea iyo: am Tanamdebobaze<br />

vniSnavdiT bankis klientebs,<br />

msxvili sawarmoebis xelmZRvanelbs<br />

an mesakuTreebs. xalxs siamovnebda,<br />

praqtikulad ki isini iRebdnen<br />

savizito baraTebs warweriT _ `vice-prezidenti~.<br />

_ krasnoiarskis aluminis qarxnis<br />

ramdeni procenti gekuTvnodaT? rodis<br />

da ratom waxvediT qarxnidan?<br />

_ me da vasilim (anisimovma), ori-<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

vem erTad kolpakovisa da amxanagebisgan<br />

14 procenti viyideT. 5-5 procenti<br />

Glencore-sgan da Daewoo-sgan<br />

gamovisyideT. amgvarad, roca aluminis<br />

qarxnidan movdiodi, me 12 procenti<br />

mqonda. am qarxanaSi erTi <strong>weli</strong>c<br />

ar vyofilvar _ mas Semdeg wavedi,<br />

rac bikovsa da sxva aqcionerebs<br />

(mxaris) gubernator aleqsandr<br />

lebedTan konfliqti SeeqmnaT.<br />

_ amboben, rom Tqven asponsorebdiT<br />

lebeds.<br />

_ lebeds maSin davexmare, roca<br />

yvelasgan mitovebuli politikosi<br />

iyo. anatoli Cubaisi xelmZRvanelobda<br />

elcinis winasaarCevno Stabs,<br />

romlis wevrebic lebeds seriozulad<br />

ar aRiqvamdnen. me ki Cems ofis-<br />

Si misi winasaarCevno Stabi ganvaTavse,<br />

mis, ase vTqvaT, `raskrutkas~ vafinansebdi.<br />

arCevnebamde erTi TviT<br />

adre yvela mixvda, rom me marTali<br />

viyavi: elcins dabali reitingi hqonda,<br />

lebedma ki arCevnebSi Tavisi xmebi<br />

elcins dauTmo da amiT misi gamarjvebac<br />

uzrunvelyo. maSin CemTvis<br />

madlobac ki aravis uTqvams, xolo<br />

rodesac lebeds xsnidnen (uSiSroebis<br />

sabWos xelmZRvanelis Tanamdebobidan),<br />

yvelam gaixsena, rom igi me<br />

moviyvane (politikaSi) da gaminapires<br />

(gamriyes). es iyo erTaderTi<br />

SemTxveva, roca politikur proces-<br />

Si vmonawileobdi. mere, roca lebeds<br />

gubernatorad irCevdnen, Zveleburad,<br />

kadrebiT ki davexmare, magram<br />

uSualod ar damifinansebia da masTan<br />

arc aranairi kavSiri ar mqonia.<br />

`SeiZleboda,<br />

yvelaferi damekarga~<br />

_ Tqven sxvadasxvagvar aqtivs yidulobdiT,<br />

Tumca 90-iani wlebis<br />

bolos Tqveni sainvesticio aqtivoba<br />

Semcirda. ratom?<br />

_ 1998 wlis defoltis Semdeg<br />

yvelanairi Zalisxmeva `rosiiski kreditis~<br />

problemebis mogvarebas das-<br />

Wirda. sxvaTa Soris, maSin saxelmwifo<br />

moxeleebma mogvatyues. msxvili<br />

bankebis mflobelebi defoltis Sesaxeb<br />

mis gamocxadebamde gagvafrTxiles.<br />

piradad me, defoltis kategoriuli<br />

winaaRmdegi viyavi, Tumca yvela<br />

mamSvidebda, xolo centraluri<br />

bankis xelmZRvaneli sergei dubinini<br />

dagvpirda, rom Tu saWiro gaxdeba,<br />

bankisTvis kredits miiRebTo. gamocxadda<br />

defolti da menabreebi TavianTi<br />

fulis wasaRebad bankebs miawydnen.<br />

sxvebiviT rom movqceuliyaviT,<br />

_ fuli ar gagveca, Cveni bankis-<br />

Tvis krizisis Sedegebi aseTi damangreveli<br />

ar iqneboda. miuxedavad amisa,<br />

Cven ori kviris ganmavlobaSi yvela<br />

msurvels patiosnad davubruneT<br />

180 milioni dolari. roca fuli<br />

gagviTavda, dubinins Tavisi dapireba<br />

Sevaxsene, magram krediti ar momca.<br />

_ ra Sedegebi moutana defoltma<br />

banks? ra moimoqmedeT bankis krizisidan<br />

gamosayvanad?

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w. saerTo gazeTi<br />

_ maSin rTuli arCevanis winaSe<br />

aRmovCndi _ an gavkotrebuliyavi an<br />

damoukideblad gametarebina restruqturizaciis<br />

procesi. Zneli iyo<br />

aseTi gadawyvetilebis miReba, Tumca<br />

restruqturizacia varCie. CemTvis,<br />

rogorc bankis aqcionerisTvis, mas<br />

ekonomikuri TvalsazrisiT, azri ar<br />

hqonda _ kargad mesmoda, rom restruqturizebuli<br />

bankis sabazro Rirebuleba<br />

Zalian dabali iqneboda. pasivsa<br />

da aqtivs Soris gansxvaveba daaxloebiT,<br />

erTi miliardi dolari iyo.<br />

paradoqsulia, magram safasuri<br />

yvela Cemi aqtivisa, romlebic bank-<br />

Tan dakavSirebuli ar yofila, im<br />

dros erTi miliardic ki ar iyo. ma-<br />

Sin miviRe gadawyvetileba, yvela Cemi<br />

samrewvelo sawarmos _ lebedinskis,<br />

stoilenskis, mixailovskis sam-<br />

To-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebis, `tulaCermetis~,<br />

orlovskis foladsaglinavi<br />

qarxnis, sastumroebis aqciebi<br />

bankis valebis uzrunvelsayofad<br />

Camedo. aseTi giravnobis gareSe, romlis<br />

nawilis mogvianebiT gamosyidva<br />

momixda, `rosiiski kreditis~ klientebi<br />

ukiduresad dazaraldebodnen,<br />

rasac Cemi cxovrebiseuli principebis<br />

gaTvaliswinebiT ver davuSvebdi.<br />

bevrs ar esmoda Cemi _ nacnob biznesmenebs<br />

lamis TviTmkvlelad mivaCndi<br />

(`rosiiski krediti~ sakredito<br />

organizaciebis restruqturizaciis<br />

saagentos /ÀÐÊÎ/ mmarTvelobaSi gadavida.<br />

miiRo ra bankis 25 procenti<br />

+ 1 aqcia sakuTrebaSi, kidev 50 procenti<br />

_ marTvaSi, saagentom mas 4,5<br />

mlrd rublis sakredito xazi gauxsna.<br />

im momentSi `rosiiski kreditis~<br />

sakredito davalianeba daaxloebiT,<br />

erT miliards Seadgenda. 2000 wlis<br />

agvistoSi damtkicda SeTanxmeba,<br />

romlis Tanaxmadac, meanabreebma<br />

(moTxovna _ 1,8 miliardi rubli)<br />

erTjeradad 30 000 rubli da bankis<br />

veqsilebi miiRes, xolo korporaciulma<br />

klientebma (moTxovna _ 21<br />

miliardi rubli) _ moTxovnis 10<br />

procentamde fulis saxiT da bankis<br />

veqselebi, romlebic aT <strong>weli</strong>wadSi<br />

iyo dasafari. 2003 wlis ivnisSi<br />

bankma fizikuri pirebis mimarT arsebuli<br />

valdebulebebis 90 procenti<br />

dafara. 2003 wlis noemberSi `rosiiski<br />

kreditis~ kapitali kvlav dadebiTi<br />

gaxda. restruqturizaciis saagentos<br />

warmomadgenelTa TqmiT, es<br />

yvelaferi damatebiTi emisiis mimdinareobisas<br />

bankis kapitalSi valebis<br />

konvertaciis Sedegad moxerxda. _<br />

Âåäîìîñòè)<br />

_ ra aqtivebi gayideT kreditorebis<br />

gasastumreblad?<br />

_ paketebi, romlebiTac lebedinskis<br />

samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinatis<br />

gakontroleba SeiZleboda, orlovis<br />

foladsaglinavi qarxana, `tulaCermeti~.<br />

vyiddi imas, razec yvelaze<br />

didi moTxovnileba iyo. sxva-<br />

TaASoris, mixailovskis kombinatis<br />

aqciebi maSin aravis sWirdeboda, im<br />

dros maTSi 50 milion dolarsac ki<br />

aravin gadaixdida. sul bankis aqcionerebma<br />

kreditorebs daaxloebiT,<br />

450 milioni dolari gadauxades _<br />

am TanxaSi Sedis aqciebis realizaciiT<br />

miRebuli Semosavali da `arkos~<br />

kreditebi, romlebic Cven mogvianebiT<br />

sakuTari biznesis meSveobiT davfareT.<br />

sxvaTa Soris, maSin rom SemenarCunebina<br />

da axla gameyida, kidev<br />

3 miliards miviRebdi.<br />

SeiZleboda, yvelaferi damekarga.<br />

qveyanaSi ekonomikis aRmasvla kidev<br />

naxevari wliT rom Seferxebuliyo,<br />

iZulebuli gavxdebodi, Cadebuli qoneba<br />

gameyida da araferi SemrCeboda.<br />

SarSan bankis restruqturizacia<br />

dasrulda. darwmunebuli var, amiT<br />

ara marto `roskreditisa~ da misi<br />

aqcionerebis prestiJi, aramed mTlianad<br />

ruseTis sabanko sistemisadmi<br />

ndoba amaRlda. ucxoeli bankirebi<br />

gafacicebuli akvirdebodnen ruseT-<br />

Si situacias, xolo Cveni bankis<br />

restruqturizaciam yvelas daanaxa,<br />

rom msgavsi problemis civilizebulad<br />

mogvarebis magaliTebi ruseTSi<br />

SesaZlebeli iyo.<br />

_ dRes xom ar nanobT, rom aseTi<br />

restruqturizacia gadawyviteT?<br />

_ vamayob, rom ase moviqeci. Sevi-<br />

narCune Cem mier Seqmnili banki.<br />

`roskreditis~ restruqturizacia<br />

erTaderTi SemTxvevaa msoflio praqtikaSi,<br />

roca mTavrobis mizeziT warmoqmnili<br />

valebi kerZo kompaniam gaistumra.<br />

Tumca, rasakvirvelia, odnav<br />

gulsatkenia, rom Zalian cotam daafasa<br />

is, risi gakeTebac maSin momiwia.<br />

_ ra gakavSirebdaT biznesmen arkadi<br />

gaidamakTan, romelmac 2000<br />

wels `rosiiski kreditis~ direqtorTa<br />

sabWos Tavmjdomaris Tanamdeboba<br />

daikava? gqondaT Tu ara erToblivi<br />

proeqtebi? amboben, rom rom<br />

mas surda, TqvenTan erTad orlovis<br />

foladsaglinavi qarxana eyida.<br />

_ gaidamaki 1991 wels gavicani.<br />

mas ruseTSi qonebis yidva undoda,<br />

masTan, iseve rogorc aTas sxva mewarmesTan<br />

erTad, SesaZlo erTobliv<br />

investiciebze vmsjelobdi. mas marTlac<br />

surda, orlovis foladsaglinavi<br />

qarxnis aqciebis yidva, magram sabolood,<br />

fuli ar gaiRo. masTan aranairi<br />

erToblivi biznesi ar mqonia.<br />

samagierod, misi wyalobiT, uZravi<br />

qonebiT davkavdi. 1992-1993 wlebSi<br />

gaidamakma `minskisa~ da `centralnaias~<br />

aqciebis uzrunvelyofiT, bankidan<br />

gamoitana kreditebi, romlebic<br />

ar daubrunebia.<br />

_ da mainc _ iyo Tu ara gaidamaki<br />

`rosiiski kreditis~ aqcioneri?<br />

2000 wels bankSi ambobdnen, rom igi<br />

aqcioneria.<br />

_ Cveni nacnobobis pirvelive<br />

dRidan undoda daveyoliebine da mis-<br />

Tvis bankis Tundac 10 procenti mi-<br />

meyida, magram uars veubnebodi. 2000<br />

wels ki gamoCnda da meubneba, rom<br />

Tanaxmaa, 200 milion dolarad 25<br />

procenti iyidos. banks maSin restruqturizaciis<br />

saagentos marTavda.<br />

fuli rom moeca, ufro did pakets<br />

mivcemdi nakleb fasad. maSinve dokumentebi<br />

ar gagviformebia, xeli ar<br />

mogviweria, magram igi sabWos Tavmjdomared<br />

daniSnes _ swored maSin (aleqsandr)<br />

livSici Tanamdebobas tovebda,<br />

mis adgilze sxva vinme unda<br />

SegverCia. gaidamaks, rogorc Cans, ar<br />

sjeroda, rom banks ar gavakotrebdi.<br />

sami Tve imuSava CvenTan, sakuTari<br />

TvaliT naxa yvela giravnoba da wavida.<br />

roca SevityveT, rom igi iara-<br />

RiT vaWrobda, vTqvi, bankSi aRar davinaxo-meTqi.<br />

`gadavwyvite, Cems<br />

did meurneobaSi<br />

wesrigi davamyaro~<br />

_ ra gegmebi gaqvT Tqveni bankebis<br />

Semdgomi ganviTarebis Sesaxeb? xom<br />

ar apirebT `impeqsbankis~ gayidvas?<br />

SesaZlebelia Tu ara `rosiiski kreditisa~<br />

da `impeqsbankis~ Serwyma?<br />

_ vidre mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidrebel<br />

kombinatTan dakavSirebiT<br />

garigebas davdebdi, `impeqsbankis~<br />

gayidvis variants ganvixilavdi,<br />

magram axla gadavwyvite, finansuri<br />

seqtori erT-erT prioritetul mimarTulebad<br />

vaqcio. axlaxan `rosiiski<br />

kreditis~ sawesdebo kapitali<br />

gavzarde 100 milioniT 350 milionamde<br />

_ `tulaCermetis~ gayidviT<br />

amonagebi Tanxa Cavde. arc ise didi<br />

xnis win 50 milioni `impeqsbankSic~<br />

Cavde. uaxloes periodSi orive bank-<br />

Si kidev 150 milionis dabandebas vapireb.<br />

maT gaerTianebas ar vapireb, es<br />

ekonomikurad gamarTlebuli ar aris,<br />

ufro xelsayrelia ori bankis qona<br />

_ erTi, `impeqsbanki~, specializdeba<br />

sacalo momsaxurebaze, xolo `rosiiski<br />

kredits~ ramdenime <strong>weli</strong>wadSi<br />

qveynis erT-erT saukeTeso sainvesticio<br />

bankad vaqcev. saamisod ki didi<br />

Zalisxmevaa saWiro, uwinaresad, es<br />

exeba bankis imijs _ yvelas axsovs,<br />

rom `rosiiski krediti~ ramdenime<br />

wlis ganmavlobaSi Tvlemda.<br />

_ ramdenad gamarTlebulia `impeqsbankis~<br />

ganviTareba, roca ucxouri<br />

bankebis poziciebi Zlierdeba da maT-<br />

Tan konkurencia sul ufro rTuldeba.<br />

_ ucxouri bankebis konkurencias<br />

rom win aRudge, erT-erTi maTgani<br />

partniorad unda gaixado. Cven (aqciebis)<br />

25 procentis gayidva gvindoda,<br />

magram potenciurma myidvelebma<br />

dagvarwmunes, rom damblokavze naklebi<br />

ar ainteresebdaT. amitomac axla<br />

molaparakebebs vawarmoebT 25<br />

procents + 1 aqciis gayidvis Sesaxeb.<br />

es garigeba biZgis mimcemi iqneba<br />

bankis ganviTarebisTvis, Semdeg ki<br />

biznesis sworad gamarTvaa saWiro.<br />

_ visTan gaqvT molaparakebebi?<br />

_ safrangeTis, germaniis, holandiis<br />

bankebTan. arCevani uaxloes xan-<br />

Si gakeTdeba.<br />

_ ratom gayideT mixailovskis<br />

samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinati?<br />

_ jer kidev 90-iani wlebis Sua<br />

periodidan moyolebuli, samTo-gamamdidrebeli<br />

da foladsaglinavi kombinatebis<br />

gaerTianebas veswrafvodi,<br />

raTa sruli sawarmoo jaWvi Seqmniliyo.<br />

aqtivebis gaerTianebis SesaZleblobaze<br />

vmsjelobdi yvela msxvili<br />

kombinatis mflobelebTan _ vladimir<br />

lisinTan, viqtor raSnikovTan,<br />

aleqsei mordaSovTan. TiToeul maTgans<br />

gaerTianebul kompaniaSi sakontrolo<br />

paketis SenarCuneba surda,<br />

rac CemTvis xelsayreli ar iyo. yvelaze<br />

metad warmatebuli gamodga molaparakebebi<br />

aleqsandr abramovTan<br />

(`evrazholdingis~ TanamflobelTan).<br />

SarSan masTan mivaRwie SeTanxmebas<br />

`evrazholdingisa~ da mixailovskis<br />

kombinatis gaerTianebis Sesaxeb. gaerTianebul<br />

kompaniaSi me miviRebdi<br />

40 procentamde, riTac misi umsxvilesi<br />

aqcioneri gavxdebodi (`evrazholdingis~<br />

aqciebi kompaniis menejments<br />

Soris aris ganawilebuli. _<br />

Âåäîìîñòè). dokumentebi mzad iyo<br />

xelmosawerad, roca Cemma Zvelma megobarma<br />

vasili anisimovma da aliSer<br />

usmanovma sxva winadadeba SemomTavazes.<br />

_ Tavdapirvelad iTqva, rom aqtivebs<br />

gaaerTianebdiT, ramdenime Tvis<br />

Semdeg ki yvela saxtad datoveT<br />

imiT, rom kombinati 2 miliard dolarad<br />

gayideT.<br />

_ Cven erToblivi biznesis SesaZleblobaze,<br />

maT sakuTrebaSi arsebuli<br />

metalurgiuli kombinatis `nostas~<br />

bazaze axali metalurgiuli<br />

warmoebis Seqmnis Sesaxeb daviwyeT<br />

msjeloba. me mindoda mixailovskis<br />

kombinatis aqciebis sakontrolo paketi<br />

SemenarCunebina, isini ki, aseT<br />

SemTxvevaSi, `nostaSi~ _ saboloo<br />

mza produqciis mwarmoebel kombinatSi<br />

daJinebiT moiTxovdnen paritets.<br />

aseTi varianti CemTvis miuRebeli<br />

iyo da gadavwyvite, maTTvis<br />

mTliani paketi mimeyida _ abramovisgan<br />

gansxvavebiT, maT es winadadeba<br />

SemomTavazes.<br />

_ iqneb metalurgiul bizness Tavi<br />

imitomac daanebeT, rom ruseTSi<br />

sul ufro da ufro mkacrdeba biznesisTvis<br />

aucilebeli pirobebi?<br />

_ mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli<br />

kombinatis aqciebi imotom gavyide,<br />

rom kargi fuli SemomTavazes.<br />

politikis komentireba ki ar msurs.<br />

_ rodis ufro muSaobdiT komfortulad<br />

_ Tqven xom egreT wodebuli<br />

sabazro urTierTobebis TiToeuli<br />

periodis Taviseburebani saku-<br />

Tar Tavze gaqvT gadatanili?<br />

16 gv.<br />

15

---

16 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

15 gv.<br />

_ yvelaze komfortulad maSin<br />

vgrZnobdi Tavs, roca `rosiiski krediti~<br />

qveynis erT-erTi umsxvilesi<br />

banki iyo, romelic ganviTarebis<br />

mwvervalze imyofeboda.<br />

_ vidre mixailovskis kombinatTan<br />

dakavSirebul garigebas dadebdiT,<br />

manamde stoilenskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli<br />

kombinati gayideT. iqmneba<br />

STabeWdileba, rom Tqven qonebas yidiT.<br />

_ gadavwyvite, Cems did meurneobaSi<br />

wesrigi davamyaro. aRar maqvs<br />

Zveleburi energia, rom yvelafriT<br />

erTbaSad davkavde. Zalian bevri sxvadasxvagvari<br />

aqtivi maqvs, romelTagan<br />

bevri privatizaciis dasawyisSivea<br />

nayidi. wlis bolomde yvela araprofiluri<br />

aqtivis gayidvas vapireb, davitoveb<br />

mxolod `stoilenskaia nivas~,<br />

bankebs, uZrav qonebas, saafTiaqo<br />

bizness, aRmosavleT cimbiris<br />

navTobisa da gazis kompanias<br />

(ÂÑÍÊ).<br />

_ ramdenad afasebT `unikoris~<br />

aqtivebs? ra Tanxas miiRebT araprofiluri<br />

qonebis gayidvis Sedegad?<br />

_ Cemi azriT, axla yvela aqtivis<br />

Rirebuleba 1,5-2 miliardi dolaria,<br />

araprofiluri aqtivebisa ki _ daaxloebiT<br />

500 milioni dolari.<br />

_ Tqven stoilenskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli<br />

kombinati 510 milion dolarad<br />

gayideT, mixailovskis kombinati<br />

da `tulaCermeti _ 2 miliardad.<br />

bazari daintrigebulia _ rogor<br />

gankargavT amonageb fuls?<br />

_ mixailovskis kombinatis aqciebidan<br />

amonagebi Tanxis naxevars axlandel<br />

proeqtebSi davabandeb. CemTvis<br />

axla prioriteti soflis meurneobaa.<br />

`stoilenskaia nivaSi~ ukve<br />

Cadebulia 200 milioni dolari, damatebiT<br />

kidev 200-300 milionis investirebas<br />

vapireb. axla molaparakebebs<br />

vmarTav kompaniis SeZenis Sesaxeb,<br />

romelic `stoilenskaia nivas~<br />

masStabisaa. misi dasaxeleba jerjerobiT<br />

ar SemiZlia.<br />

_ ratom aris prioritetuli<br />

soflis meurneobis biznesi? gagaCniaT<br />

rame gaTvla, rom igi perspeqtiulia?<br />

_ axlandel pirobebSi msgavsi<br />

gaTvla SeuZlebelia, bevr rames<br />

mTavrobis pozicia gansazRvravs. er-<br />

Tgvari sportuli interesi mamoZravebs<br />

_ rTul seqtorSi warmatebuli<br />

kompania Sevqmna.<br />

_ gaamarTla Tu ara saafTiaqo<br />

biznesma Tqveni molodini?<br />

_ Cven igi arafrisgan daviwyeT.<br />

jerjerobiT mogeba Cadebul investicias<br />

ver aWarbebs, misi reinvestireba<br />

mimdinareobs, magram es mimarTuleba<br />

perspeqtiulad mimaCnia. kidev<br />

100-200 milionis Cadebas vapireb.<br />

SarSan samxreTis federalur olqSi<br />

ukve viyideT didi saafTiaqo qseli,<br />

axla mis rebrendirebas vaxdenT.<br />

dRes bevria am biznesiT dainteresebuli<br />

_ Cven ganvacxadeT, rom mzad<br />

varT viyidoT saafTiqo qseli, magram<br />

aravis unda misi gayidva.<br />

_ uZrav qonebasTan dakavSirebuli<br />

ra proeqtebis realizebas apirebT?<br />

_ daiwyo `minskis~ rekonstruqcia~,<br />

Semdegi sastumro `centralnaia~<br />

iqneba. meorad bazarze sastumroebis<br />

yidvis SesaZleblobas vswavlob.<br />

`kauCukis~ teritoriaze, romlis saerTo<br />

farTobi 10 heqtaria, sul ma-<br />

`ar megona, rom<br />

miliarderi<br />

gavxdebodi~<br />

le daiwyeba mravalfunqciuri didi<br />

kompleqsis mSenebloba _ ofisebiT,<br />

sacxovrebeli saxlebiT da sxv. uZravi<br />

qonebiT SemdgomSic davkavdebiT,<br />

ukve veZebT Zvel nagebobebs, miwas<br />

mSeneblobisTvis. uZrav qonebaSi yvelaze<br />

didi investicia Caideba _ daaxloebiT<br />

500 milioni dolari.<br />

_ Tqvens mflobelobaSia didi<br />

satransporto kompania `wiaRiseulis<br />

gadazidvs centri~. xom ar apirebT<br />

mis gayidvas? ramdenad afasebT mas?<br />

_ vfiqrob, misi fasi 250 milioni<br />

dolaria. es kompania sarkinigzo<br />

gadazidvebSi umsxvilesia, mis parkSi<br />

4 000 vagonia. uaxloes aT <strong>weli</strong>wadSi<br />

mas veravin Seaviwroebs. jerjerobiT<br />

ar gamomaqvs gasayidad, magram<br />

Tu myidvelebi moiZebnebian, gavyidi.<br />

_ raSi unda daxarjoT mixailovskis<br />

kombinatis gayidviT miRebuli<br />

Tanxis meore naxevari? raime msxvili<br />

aqtivis yidvas apirebT? iqneb ruse-<br />

Tis sazRvrebs miRma?<br />

_ yvelanair Sesyidvas vapireb<br />

mxolod ruseTSi, romelsac kargad<br />

vicnob. viyiddi axal did kompanias,<br />

magram saintereso winadadebebi ar<br />

Cans. erT-erTi varianti iqneba aRmosavleT<br />

cimbiris navTobisa da gazis<br />

kompaniis sakontrolo paketis yidva.<br />

`unikors~ am kompaniis aqciebis 28,5<br />

procenti aqvs. igi aRmosavleT cimbiris,<br />

kerZod, CemTvis kargad nacnobi<br />

krasnoiarskis mxaris bolomde gamoukvleveli,<br />

magram navTobis perspeqtiuli<br />

maragebis aTvisebiT aris<br />

dakavebuli.<br />

_ rogor aRmoCndiT am proeqtSi?<br />

_ `iuksis~ (1998 wlis gazafxulze<br />

`sibneftisa~ da `iukosis~<br />

mflobelebi am saxelwodebiT gaer-<br />

Tianebuli kompaniis Seqmnas apirebdnen.<br />

_ Âåäîìîñòè) daSlis Semdeg,<br />

`sibneftis~ aqcionerebma aRmosavleT<br />

cimbiris navTobisa da gazis kompania,<br />

aRar maxsovs, romel navTobreiderebs<br />

mihyides. isini am kompaniis aqciebis<br />

100 procents me mTavazobdnen;<br />

vfiqrobdi, rom marto ver gavwvdebodi<br />

da (aRmosavleT cimbiris<br />

navTobisa da gazis kompaniis) sakon-<br />

trolo paketis `iukosisTvis~ miyidvis<br />

organizeba gadavwyvite. am proeqtis<br />

bedi jerjerobiT gaurkvevelia.<br />

Tuki saxelmwifo gamoxatavs Tavis<br />

pozicias aRmosavleT cimbiris nav-<br />

Tobisa da gazis kompaniis mimarT,<br />

SesaZloa, pretenzia gamecxadebina<br />

sakontrolo paketis Sesyidvaze, magram<br />

xom unda vicode, visTan vawarmoo<br />

molaparakebebi _ `iukosTan~ Tu<br />

saxelmwifosTan?<br />

_ aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa<br />

da gazis kompaniis aqciebis sakontrolo<br />

paketis SesaZenad `iukosTan~<br />

molaparakebebi mimdinareobs?<br />

_ jerjerobiT _ ara.<br />

_ riTi gxiblavT es proeqti?<br />

_ kargad vicnob am kompanias, igi<br />

warmatebiT viTardeboda, mis mimarT<br />

pretenziebi ar hqoniaT (da axlac<br />

asea) im saxelmwifo organoebs, romlebic<br />

bunebaTsargeblobis sakiTxebs<br />

aregulireben. aqcionerebma masSi ukve<br />

Cades 190 milioni dolaris investicia.<br />

aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa<br />

da gazis kompaniis ganviTarebis<br />

strategia Cven, rogorc minoritarul<br />

aqcionerebs, xels gvaZlevs.<br />

Tuki aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa<br />

da gazis kompania gaiyideba, am proeqtis<br />

aTvisebas mxolod Cemi fuli<br />

ar eyofa, damatebiTi saxsrebis mozidva<br />

iqneba aucilebeli.<br />

_ Tuki aRmosavleT cimbiris nav-<br />

Tobisa da gazis kompaniis yidva ver<br />

moxerxda?<br />

_ portfelur investorad davr-<br />

Cebi. kargad vicnob sainvesticio bizness.<br />

me ukve mekuTvnis `gazpromis~,<br />

`lukoilis~, sxva kompaniebis TiTo-<br />

TiTo procenti. momavalSi rusuli<br />

kompaniebis likviduri qaRaldebis<br />

yidvas kvlav gavagrZeleb.<br />

_ saqarTveloSi axlaxan dabrundiT.<br />

didi xania, iq biznesi gaqvT?<br />

_ daaxloebiT aTi <strong>weli</strong>a, rac saqarTveloSi<br />

biznesi maqvs. aqtivebi<br />

sxvadasxvagvaria. Cems mflobeloba-<br />

Sia kvebis dargSi erT-erTi umsxvilesi<br />

kompania _ `Tolia~, romelic<br />

amzadebs nayins, pelmens, namcxvrebs.<br />

maqvs banki `qarTu~, agreTve saqarTveloSi<br />

udidesi samSeneblo kompania,<br />

romelic ofisebsac aSenebs da<br />

sacxovrebel saxlebsac; sasoflo-sameurneo<br />

kompania, romelsac 600 ha<br />

miwa ekuTvnis. Cems sakuTrebas warmoadgens<br />

saqarTveloSi yvelaze didi<br />

marani, romelic mTaSia gaWrili. iq<br />

RviniT savse uzarmazari cisternebia.<br />

300 heqtarze vazi gavaSeneT, ganvi-<br />

Tarebas vfiqrobdiT, magram axla yvelafer<br />

amas vyidi, myidvelebic gamoCndnen.<br />

mxolod banks davitoveb.<br />

_ ratom gadawyviteT saqarTveloSi<br />

biznesis gayidva?<br />

_ male 50 wlis vxdebi da axla<br />

aucilebelia mTavarze koncentrireba,<br />

yvelafris erTad gaZRolas sxva<br />

energia sWirdeba. erTaderTi proeqti,<br />

romlis dasrulebac msurs, es<br />

aris samTo-saTxilamuro kompleqsi<br />

`bakuriani-2~. ramdenime wlis win evropis<br />

erT-erT saukeTeso mTian mxareSi,<br />

bakurianSi, miwis didi nakveTi<br />

SeviZine. kanadurma da avstriulma<br />

kompaniebma ukve Seadgines sakurorto<br />

kompleqsis ganviTarebis generaluri<br />

gegma. kompleqsi moicavs<br />

saTxilamuro trasebsa da gasarTob<br />

centrs. wleuls proeqtis pirveli<br />

etapis _ gondolebiani sabagiro<br />

gzis mSeneblobis dafinansebas viwyeb,<br />

gaisad ki mTliani infrastruqtura<br />

mzad unda iyos. TviTon ver<br />

davkavdebi am proeqtiT. iq ZiriTadad<br />

rusi turistebi Cavlen. minda, rom<br />

rusma turoperatorebma sastumroebis<br />

mSenebloba daiwyon da mzad var,<br />

maT mSeneblobisTvis miwa usasyidlod<br />

gadavce da dafinansebis SeRava-<br />

Tiani pirobebic SevTavazo.<br />

_ saqarTveloSi Tqvens dabrunebas<br />

qveyanaSi seriozuli cvlilebebi<br />

daemTxva. rogor afasebT am cvlilebebs?<br />

_ xelisuflebaSi movida axalgazrduli<br />

Zala, magram me maTi arc<br />

momxre var da arc mowinaaRmdege.<br />

sul es aris, risi Tqmac SemiZlia.<br />

saerTod ki, Zalian vwuxvar, rom rusul-qarTuli<br />

urTierTobebi aseT kalapotSi<br />

miedineba.<br />

_ ramdenad sajaro cxovrebas<br />

eweviT saqarTveloSi, rogori damokidebuleba<br />

aqvT adgilobriv politikosebs,<br />

biznesmenebs Tqven mimarT?<br />

_ arc erT maTganTan ar maqvs<br />

kontaqti, gancalkevebiT vcxovrob,<br />

mxolod naTesavebTan, axlo megobrebTan<br />

vurTierTob. aranairi politikuri<br />

ambicia ar gamaCnia, ubralod,<br />

minda, sakuTar ojaxTan erTad mSvidad<br />

vicxovro. Cems sofel Worvilas<br />

xandaxan biznesis sakiTxebis mosagvareblad<br />

Tu vtoveb.<br />

_ Tu es yvelaferi marTlac asea,<br />

maSin ratom mimarTeT sasamarTlos<br />

pativisa da Rirsebis dasacavad?<br />

_ imitom, rom arasodes damikargavs<br />

pativi da Rirseba, sindisis karnaxiT<br />

vcxovrobdi. am faseulobebis<br />

aRdgenaze ki isini dafiqrdnen, vinc<br />

Cemze sicrues werda.<br />

maria roJkova, Âåäîìîñòè<br />

7 aprili, 2005 <strong>weli</strong>

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

im mxares, sadac Cv.w. aR-iT I<br />

saukuneSi andria pirvelwodebulma<br />

da mataTa mociqulebma iqadages,<br />

saakaSvilma da misma yaCaRebma<br />

pirisagan miwisa aRgva gadauwyvites.<br />

saakaSvilis uniWo fantaziiT<br />

“damSvenebuli” baTumi SarSan vixile.<br />

amitom wels, universitetidan<br />

gamogdebuli da mowafebis anabara<br />

datovebuli dedaCemis SeTavazebas<br />

davTanxmdi. “naCuqar cxens<br />

kbilebs an usinjaven” da dapati-<br />

Jebaze uari ar vTqvi, qobuleTSi<br />

gavyevi. saakaSvilis “naqebi da ayvavebuli<br />

aWaris” nasaxs _ qobuleTSi<br />

ver naxavT. lamazi da<br />

zrdili aWarlebiT ganTqmul mxareSi,<br />

gaWirvebis miuxedavad, xalxi<br />

iseTive Tbili da gulRiaa, rogorc<br />

adre. gakvirveba saakaSvilze<br />

saubarma gamoiwvia. daSinebuli<br />

Tbiliselebisgan gansaxvavebiT,<br />

ver vnaxe aWareli, romelmac obieqturi<br />

da marTali Sefaseba ar<br />

misca saakaSvilis uTavbolo bogins<br />

saqarTveloSi. erTma aWarelma<br />

sinanuliT isic miTxra_ saakaSvili<br />

qobuleTs ise ar wyalobs,<br />

rogorc baTumso. meorem ki daayola,<br />

SesaZloa, kargic aris, Torem<br />

aqaurobasac gaaTurqebdao. aWaris<br />

gaTurqebis dasawyiss ki, 5-5-wu-<br />

Tis SualediT Camoqrolebuli“GeliK”,<br />

“SeS-Taz”-is warwerebiani<br />

Tuqruli trailerebis meSveobiT,<br />

saqarTveloSi Turquli<br />

porduqciis eqsapansiac metyvelebs.<br />

kolxeTis uZveles miwazec<br />

alisa da ninos distrofiuli qandakebebic<br />

amisTvis dadga da didad<br />

amayobs. simboloebisadmi masonTa<br />

gansakuTrebuli midrekilebebis<br />

gaTvaliswinebiT, am qandakebebis<br />

dadgmasac simboluri datvirTva<br />

unda hqondes. mainca da mainc nino<br />

(saxeli)- qarTvelTa ganmanaTleblis,<br />

mociqulTa sworis da<br />

arabi “alis” dadgma, SemTxveviToba<br />

ar unda iyos! anu ramdenadac<br />

ali, ideaSi, ninos “erT xorc<br />

xdeba”, unda vivaraudoT, rom<br />

“ali baba garekil I-s Tavisi nacionali<br />

yaCaRebianad” ninos saxiT<br />

alisgan saaqarTvelos gaxarWeba<br />

ganuzraxavs. muslimTagan araerTgzis<br />

aoxrebul-dapyrobil aWaraSi<br />

arabuli arqiteqturis elementebisa<br />

da wels ukve Cadriani iraneli<br />

da arabi qalebis simravlec<br />

_ amaze miuTiTebs. investorebad<br />

Semosul Turq biznesmenebsac mSeneblebad<br />

Turqebi SemohyavT. inevstorebma<br />

saqarTveloSi “monaTmflobeli<br />

plantatorebis” funqcia<br />

itvirTes. maT kompaniebSi dasaqmebuli<br />

yvela qarTveli, faqtobrivad,<br />

monis pirobebze muSaobs.<br />

dapirebuli maRalxelfasiani<br />

samuSao adgilebis nacvlad, eray-<br />

Si sakontraqto xelSekrulebiT<br />

gagzavnil qarTvelTa msgavsad,<br />

aWaraSic qarTvelTa diskriminacia<br />

xdeba. Turqi batonebis sastumroebis<br />

mSeneblobebisas, maTi Camoyvanili<br />

muSa, ufaso sacxovrebliTac<br />

da samjeradi kvebiTac uzrunvelyofilia.<br />

xelfassac eraySi “amerikeli<br />

natoelebis” msgavsad, qar-<br />

Tvelze orjer mets iRebs. sastumroSi<br />

eqim-masaJistis adgilze<br />

muSaobis dasawyebad misul qalbatonebs<br />

ki samuSaos im SemTxveva-<br />

Si sTavazoben, Tu seqsmomsaxurebazec<br />

daTanxmdebian.?! anu xalxuri<br />

eniT rom vTqvaT, eqimi dotis<br />

msgavsad “ibozeben”. “garekil ali<br />

baba I da misi nacionaluri yaCa-<br />

Rebic”, romlebic, “kikus” msgavsad<br />

“fuli baba, bevri fulio”<br />

eZaxian Tavian “miSa babas”. Tanaxma<br />

arian fulis sanacvlod saku-<br />

Tari ded-mamac ki gahyidon, araTu<br />

samSoblo da sarwmunoeba. saakaSvili<br />

qobuleTs armenebiT avsebs,<br />

baTums ki TurqebiT. saboloo<br />

jamSi ki, saqarTvelos did haramhanad<br />

gadaqcevas gegmavs, sadac<br />

msoflio seqsindustriaSi qarTvel<br />

gog-biWebs Caabams. aba baTumis<br />

gei-aRlumisTvis saxldaxelod gakeTebul<br />

saitebze, sxvadasxva sas-<br />

tumroebSi, ucxoelebs, sxvadasxva<br />

momsaxureobas tyuilad xom ar<br />

sTavazobdnen? an “msoflioSi saxelganTqmul<br />

anakliaSi” “nudisturi<br />

plaJis” mowyobas tyuilad<br />

xom ar gegmavs? “pirveli qalbatonic,”<br />

90-iani wlebis dasawyis-<br />

Si, 8 gogonasTan erTad, areul<br />

saqarTveloSi SemTxveviT xom ar<br />

Camosula? igive megruli, svanuri<br />

da qarTuli dialeqtebic SemTxve-<br />

viT xom ar uswavlia? arc “ali<br />

baba garekils”, saqarTvelos momaval<br />

prezidents “SemTxveviT” rom<br />

ar Sexvedria strasburgSi _ ama-<br />

Sic eWvi aRaravis unda eparebodes.<br />

“amerikuli proeqtis es wyvili<br />

Tavis yaCaRebianad” mizanmimar-<br />

Tulad angrevs da anadgurebs saqarTvelos.<br />

“pirveli qalbatoni”<br />

sirinozis xmiT da angelozis saxiT<br />

axla samegrelosTvis gakeTebuli<br />

klipidan gvimReris. “gamarjoba,<br />

afaxazeTo Senis” da “koki-<br />

Ti fandarastis” samaCabloze gadaRebulma<br />

klipebma es mxareebi<br />

dagavakargvina. axla, SesaZloa, samegrelosac,<br />

raRac amdagvars upirebdnen.<br />

praqtika ase adasturebs.<br />

miT ufro maSin, roca cxirvalSi<br />

gamarjvebis aRsaniSnav aRlumSi<br />

rusi samxedroebic apireben monawileobas.<br />

vin icis, garekils kidev<br />

ra garigeba aqvs maTTan?!<br />

saakaSvili dafiJvinebuli “kaligulas<br />

saxiT” turizmis ayvavebas<br />

gvpirdeba. misi “pirveli qalbatoni”<br />

ki saqarTveloSi ganxorcilebeuli<br />

jandacvis yvela damangreveli<br />

proeqtis monawilea. Tumca<br />

saakaSvilis gverdiT imdeni<br />

“sirinozis xmiani” qalbatoni momravlda,<br />

rom xalxi ukve veRar<br />

arkvevs, romelia pirveli da romeli<br />

meore, an mesame?! “am sirinozTa<br />

galobas” A”ali baba garekilis”<br />

gulis mosagebad miSaviziebi<br />

24-saaTian reJimSi atrialeben.<br />

arc isaa gamoricxuli, 24<br />

000 000-ad Sefasebuli turistebisTvis<br />

asaSenebeli saavadmyofoc,<br />

swored is aRmoCndes, romelsac<br />

saqarTveloSi organoebis transplantaciisTvis<br />

aSeneben da arc,<br />

rogorc boroti enebi saubroben,<br />

rom “organoebiT vaWrobis am saerTaSoriso<br />

qselis saqarTveloSi<br />

mTavari kuratori” swored statusiT<br />

“pirveli qalbatonia”. imitom,<br />

rom jandacvis proeqtebze<br />

eqskluzivi saqarTveloSi mas gaaCnia!<br />

saakaSvils saqarTvelo da<br />

qarTvelebi ise sZuls, rom SesaZleblobis<br />

SemTxvevaSi, saqarTvelos<br />

gulsac amoglejda. Tumda<br />

agvistos omiT es nawilobriv gaakeTa<br />

kidec. afxazeTs ki, rogorc<br />

ZirZvel dakargul miwa-wyals, ukve<br />

aRarc ki axsenebs. Amboben, mis<br />

aRiarebasac apirebs kideco?! axla<br />

ki ‘”aWaris siyvarulis buSti aqvs<br />

gaxeTqili”. specialurad, ramdenime<br />

asiaTasad gadaRebul filmSi<br />

“mziani saqarTvelo” or Jurnalists<br />

baTumSi gamoyenebul evropuli<br />

arqiteqturis elementebze<br />

esaubreba. evropulze<br />

metad ba-<br />

TumSi islamuri<br />

elementebi rom<br />

sWarbobs, amaze<br />

arafers ambobs.<br />

”garekili ali<br />

Tavisi nacionali<br />

yaCaRebianad” Tbilissa<br />

da Tbiliselebs<br />

arCevenebis<br />

wagebis gamo rom<br />

ver itans, axali<br />

araa. Tumca saprezidentodgamzadebuli<br />

ugulavas sawinaaRmdegod,aWaraSi<br />

metad saintereso<br />

faqti aRmovaCine?!<br />

nu ityviT<br />

da denze mibmuli<br />

nagvis tarific da<br />

samrSruto taqsebis<br />

gaZvirebac Turme<br />

mxolod Tbiliselebis<br />

sulis<br />

amosaZrobad sagrialo fulebis<br />

amosaqaCad, eqskluziurad TbilisisTvis<br />

SemoiRes.<br />

“ali baba garekil I-s” qobuleTis<br />

gaTurqebis sakiTxze metad<br />

sCans qobuleTis gaarmeneba aqvs<br />

ganzraxuli, naTelia. armeniaSi<br />

swavla pirvel seqtembers iwyeba.<br />

CemisTana qarTvelebic, mSvidi dasasvenebisTvis,<br />

da qarTul mxare-<br />

Si dasvenebas am dros arCevs. swored<br />

seqtembris dasawyisSi Cadis<br />

aWaraSi. miuxedavad amisa, sruli<br />

SegrZneba iyo, rom armeniis mier<br />

oupirebul regionSi imyofebodi.<br />

armenuli warwerebi, simRerebi da<br />

yvelgan armenuli saubari amis<br />

srul gancdas iwvevda. marTalia,<br />

Cvenma mTavrobam, saqarTveloSi da<br />

aWaraSi “turizmis ayvavebiT” yurebi<br />

gamogviWeda. Tumca is ar<br />

icis, rom am tiraJirebuli turizmis<br />

infrastruqturas aWaraSi<br />

mtrebi gamouCnda. Cveni sastumros<br />

win mdebare bungalos restoranSi<br />

SuaRamemde erTmaneTs gamayruebeli<br />

xmiT, qarTuli, rusuli da<br />

somxuri simRerebi cvlida. dasasveneblad<br />

Camosuli turistebisadmi<br />

aseTma adgebulma damokidebulebam,<br />

kerZo vizitiT Camusuli<br />

amerikeli turistebic ki aRaSfo-<br />

Ta da maT saswrafod datoves qo-<br />

buleTi. aRsaniSnavia, rom xsenebuli<br />

bungalo yofil gamgebels_<br />

vinme noRaidels ekuTvnis. miuxedavad<br />

“ali baba garekil I-is” daqadnebuli<br />

araklanurobisa, yofili<br />

gamgeblis “sviazebi”qobuleT-<br />

Si isev “Wris”. Sewuxebuli damsveneblebisgan<br />

araerTgzis gamoZaxebuli<br />

patruli ki, xSirad Rameul<br />

RriancelSi monawileobas Tavad<br />

agrZelebda. rac ara marto<br />

“saakaSvilis turizmis infrastrqurturas”,<br />

aramed merabiSvilis<br />

policiis mier mopovebul avtoritetsac<br />

laxavs. miuxedavad imisa,<br />

rom Ramis yoveli Rreoba policiis<br />

himniT iwyeboda da sruldeboda.<br />

Ramis sam saaTze mainc gasakviri<br />

mosasmeni iyo, gamayruebeli<br />

xmiT namReri _ “dRes simsSvide<br />

aris Cveni mizanio”. gansakuTrebuli<br />

interesi CemSi simReram _<br />

“ß ëþáëþ òåáÿ Ðîññèÿ“-m gamoiwvia.<br />

marTalia, “ruseTis” nacvlad,<br />

momRerlebis “rostovs” ambobdnen,<br />

magram rostovic ruseTis nawilad<br />

ar moiazreba? Aai, garekil<br />

rogor pativs scemen Sens turizms<br />

da amave dros, rogor uyvarT<br />

Seni “saZulveli ruseTi”?!<br />

Cvens sastumroSi erevnidan<br />

Camosuli ori qaliSvili isvenebda.<br />

qarTuli stumarT-maspinZlobidan<br />

gamomdinare, sakmaod Tbili<br />

da kargi uTierTobebi dagvimyarada.<br />

sakmaod, ganaTlebulma da kargad<br />

aRzrdilma 34 wlis qalba-<br />

ali baba da nacionali<br />

yaCaRebi<br />

tonma, armenebis uaryofiTi damokidebuleba<br />

garegin II-is mimarT<br />

Riad daafiqsira. garegin II-s<br />

Turme ieRovelebisa da mormonebis<br />

seqtebi, sxva seqtebTan er-<br />

Tad, religiis rangSi auyvania da<br />

Tavad armenul eklesiaSic ganxeTqilebaa<br />

amis Taobazeo. stefanianis<br />

provokatorul saqmianobazec<br />

visaubreT da swori informa-<br />

ciis gacvlisTvis, erTmaneTis<br />

“imeilebic” gavcvaleT. “warmoSobiT<br />

javaxeTidan var, iq davibade,<br />

erevanSi vcxovrob da yovel<br />

zafxuls me da mamaCemi Cvens sofelSi,<br />

“Cvens faravnis” tbaze<br />

davdivarTo”. mogviyva 15 wlis genocdizec.<br />

rogoria? armeniidan,<br />

adamianebi rogorc sakuTar sofelSi,<br />

ise dadian saqarTvelos<br />

teritoriaze. an gasakviri raa,<br />

rodesac “ ali baba garekil I-isa<br />

da misi nacionali yaCaRebis xel-<br />

Si, saqarTvelos sazRvrebis demarkaciac<br />

ar aris gakeTebuli.<br />

romel mezobels, rogorc unda<br />

ise moiwevs da gvaWris miwawyals.<br />

“ormagi moqalaqeoba unda<br />

aviRo da qarTuli unda viswavloo”_<br />

miTxra armenma erminem.<br />

“is ki ara, karg qarTvel biWsac<br />

SeiZleba gavyve, oRond cota armenuli<br />

sisxlic unda erioso”.<br />

saerTo gazeTi<br />

armenebis prezidentis, serJ sarqisianis<br />

gancxadebas Tu gaviTvaliswinebT,<br />

is javaxeTis mosaxelobisTvis<br />

armenulis regionalur<br />

enad aRiarebas moiTxovs,<br />

oRond principiT _ “integracia<br />

asimilaciis gareSe”. es ki karg<br />

qarTvelTan, Tundac “cota armenuli<br />

sisxliT narevTan” urTier-<br />

Tobas gamoricxavs. ase rom, Cems<br />

axal nacnobs _ ermines qarTvelze<br />

gaTxoveba ar uweria?! misive<br />

monaTxrobiT, armenebs hgoniaT,<br />

rom saqarTvelo yvavis. armeniaSi<br />

iseTive gaWirveba yofila, rogorc<br />

CvenTan. (Cveni regionebis<br />

msagavsad, rasac televiziiT uyureben<br />

sjeraT, rom biznesebi damoukidebelia,<br />

gadasaxadebi dabali<br />

da pensia uzarmazari. ”me aq Camovdivar<br />

da vici, simarTle rac<br />

ariso”. iqneb armeniaSi simarTle<br />

rom gaigon _ saqarTvelos Tavi<br />

daanebon?! “javaxkSi”, rogorc<br />

ermine uwodebs javaxeTs, bevrsaa<br />

aqvs armenuli pasporti. es ki<br />

afxazeTSi da samaCabloSi mezobeli<br />

qveynis pasportebis darigebis<br />

analogias waagavs. “garekil ali I<br />

da nacionali yaCaRebi” arc amaze<br />

“ibartyuneben yurs”. metic, saqarTvelos<br />

istorias amaxinjeben<br />

da cvlian. Cems axal nacnobTan<br />

saubrebisas mivxvdi, rom maT dabadebidan<br />

araswor istorias aswavlian<br />

da unergaven, rom javaxe-<br />

Ti maTi istoriuli miwaa?! rogor,<br />

javaxeTSi 30-ian wlebSi dasaxldiT-Tqo<br />

vuTxari. Tqvens genocidze<br />

rom saubrob, 18-19<br />

wlis, TbilisSi armenebis SemoWra<br />

da axalgazrda oficrebis<br />

amowyvetac gaixsene-Tqo. amis Sesaxeb<br />

araferi smenia da gaocebuli<br />

mismenda. vkiTxe, aq daibade.<br />

mogwons. aravin gagdebs aqedan.<br />

gaTxovebasac ki apireb da sabolood,<br />

saqarTveloSi javaxeTis<br />

bedi rogor warmogidgeniaT javaxeTis<br />

armenebs-Tqo? Cven, armenebs,<br />

yarabaRis msagavsad, “javaxeTis”<br />

avtonomia warmogvidgenia, oRond<br />

gveSinia ferganis msgavsi movlenebi<br />

ar ganmeordeso. aucileblad<br />

ganmeordeba-meTqi. Cven imdeni miwa-wyali<br />

davkargeT, sxvaTa Soris,<br />

nawili Tqvens teritoriad<br />

iTvleba, rom qarTvelebi dRes<br />

amas aRar daTmoben-meTqi. am axalgazrda<br />

qals javaxeTi marTla Tavisi<br />

miwa-wyali hgonia. bavSvobidan<br />

ase aswavlian da misi brali<br />

ar aris. seriozuli muSaoba, samecniero<br />

doneze istoriuli wyaroebis<br />

wamowevaa saWiro. faqtia,<br />

rom aseTi adamianebis ukan bevria<br />

“daSnakuri organizaciebis” provokatori<br />

agentebi.<br />

qveynis realuri aRmSenebloba<br />

da istoriuli kanonierebis aRdgena<br />

da qveynis samarTlebriv, saerTaSoriso<br />

CarCoebSi Casma, pirvel<br />

etapze, 1801 wlis kanonierebis<br />

aRdgeniT unda daviwyoT da<br />

TandaTan mivyveT yvelafers. anu<br />

konstituciur monarqiaze gadavideT.<br />

amiT Cvens miwa-wyalze mezobeli<br />

saxelmwifoebis uzomo madasac<br />

avlagmavT. evropul monarqiul<br />

ojaxSi SesvliT ki avtomaturad<br />

im ganviTrebadi qveynis<br />

statusidanac gamovalT, ris gamoc<br />

gaanadgures yvelaferi. amas,<br />

TavisTavad, ganaTlebis, jandacvisa<br />

da a.S normaluri done mohyveba.<br />

avcdebiT mona-mosamsaxure<br />

erad Camoyalibebasac. araqarTuli<br />

warmomavlobis mmarTvelis<br />

Tavgasul parpaSsa da ucxo qveynidan<br />

marTul, marionet prezidentsac.<br />

imitom, rom “ali baba<br />

garekil I-isa da misi nacionali<br />

yaCaRebisa” da igive opozicioneri<br />

politikosebis xelSi, saqar-<br />

TveloSi qarTvel kacs bednieri<br />

cxovreba ar uweria. axal mosuli<br />

prezidenric, sabolood, sa-<br />

Tavisod moixmars saqarTvelos<br />

da vin icis, kidev ras moimoqmedebs.<br />

baia amaSukeli<br />

17

---

18 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

Wkvianma icis da gkiTxavs<br />

Cemi mizani dReidan aRar<br />

aris did qarTul politikaSi<br />

gamoCenili biZina ivaniSvilis<br />

Rvawlsa da kaiymobaze wera. Cven<br />

amaze ukve saerTo, Camoyalibebuli<br />

mosazreba gvaqvs. panegirikas<br />

unda SeveSvaT, eiforiidan gamovideT<br />

da saqmes mivxedoT, saqmiT<br />

davdgeT am kacs gverdiT da arc<br />

is daviviwyoT, rom amiT mas ki<br />

ar davexmarebiT, aramed mamuls,<br />

momavals da sakuTar Tavs.<br />

raSi unda gamoixatos es Tanadgoma?<br />

uwinaresad, am etapze, saqmiani<br />

winadadebebisa da rCevebis<br />

gacxadebaSi. qarTvelma sazogadoebriobam<br />

sainformacio saSalebebiT<br />

unda Seqmnas rCevebisa<br />

da ideebis Taviseburi banki, romelsac<br />

batoni biZina da misi<br />

Stabi daamuSaveben, riTac erTis<br />

mxriv sworad dainaxaven da Tavidan<br />

aicileben riskebs, meres<br />

mxriv ki efeqturad `daazianeben~<br />

mowinaaRmdegis `sacecxle<br />

wertilebs~.<br />

gasagebia, rom axla uamrav<br />

patriots aqvs baton biZinasTan<br />

Sexvedris da gasaubrebis survili,<br />

magram es gamoricxulia ori<br />

mizezis gamo: pirveli _ uzarmazari<br />

nakadis axlo xanebSi miReba<br />

praqtikulad ganuxorcilebelia;<br />

meore _ es mizanSeuwonelia<br />

usafrTxoebis TvalsazrisiT.<br />

amdenad, vfiqrobT, TanamSromlobis<br />

aseTi forma pirvel<br />

etapze yovelanairad gamarTlebulia,<br />

xolo batoni biZina, imedia,<br />

erTi sparsuli sibrZniT gamogvexmaureba:<br />

`Wkvianma icis da<br />

gkiTxavs, uWkuom ar icis da ar<br />

gkiTxavs~.<br />

mamuli, ena,<br />

sarwmunoeba<br />

batono biZina, is, vinc Tqveni<br />

mimarTvebi da interviuebi waikiTxa,<br />

SeuZlebelia Tqvens siqveleSi<br />

(siqvele martooden<br />

qvelmoqmedeba araa, igi uSiSroba<br />

da vaJkacobac aris _ gavixsenoT<br />

farsman qveli) da mamuliSvilobaSi<br />

daeWvdes. magram es<br />

imedi da ndoba kidev ufro gaibrwyinebs<br />

Tu sityvebTan _`demokratia~,<br />

`Tavisufleba~, `Tanamegobroba~<br />

da sxva misTanasTan<br />

erTad xSirad gaiJRerebs: `eri~,<br />

`mamuli~, `samSoblo~, `qarTuli<br />

cnobiereba~, `ilia~ da sxva. pirveli<br />

noembris preskonferenciaze<br />

marTlac sanimuSo gamosvlis<br />

gvirgvini iyo winadadeba: `me<br />

vxedavdi, rom vkargavdi samSoblos<br />

da politikaSi amitom movedi~.<br />

gulis siRrmidan daZrulma<br />

am sityvebma milionobiT qar-<br />

Tvelis gulSi gaiara. ar dagaeWvoT<br />

iman, rom Rirseuli winaprebis<br />

saxelis xsenebis gamo vinmem<br />

fariseveli xelisuflebis<br />

wevrebTan gaavlos paraleli.<br />

mTavaria, romeli WurWlidan<br />

gadmoedineba sityva.<br />

samSoblos rom siyvarulSi<br />

gamoutydebi adamiani, amas ras<br />

sjobs, miTumetes maSin, roca<br />

bolomde gaqvs SegrZnobili misi<br />

fesvebi da am fesvebis naJuri.<br />

saqarTvelo ar aris is qveyana,<br />

romelmac evropelobiT unda<br />

ikeklucos (sul sxvaa masTan<br />

mWidro TanamSromloba, riskenac<br />

yovelTvis iswrafvoda Cveni qveyana).<br />

masxendeba markiz de kiustenis<br />

sityvebi: `me rusebs ar<br />

vkicxav imisTvis, rac namdvilad<br />

arian, magram vgmob maT survils<br />

Tavi evropelebad mogvaCvenon...<br />

SeiZleboda imedi ar dagvekarga<br />

maTi kulturuli SeTvisebisa,<br />

rom maimunebiviT ar baZavdnen<br />

sxva erebs da imavdroulad ar<br />

dascinodnen maT, visac baZaven~.<br />

es naTqvami martooden rusebs<br />

rodi Seexeba. mimbaZveloba gansakuTrebiT<br />

damamcirebelia iseTi<br />

erisTvis, romelic uZvelesi<br />

msoflio civilizaciis wiaRSi<br />

warmoiSva da Camoyalibda. Cveni<br />

sisxlismieri gancda, sulieri<br />

mimoqcva da warmosaxva, Cveni<br />

qmedeba Cvens enaSi, simReraSi,<br />

rokvaSi, samiwaTmoqmedo kulturaSi<br />

da kosmogonur warmodgenebSia.<br />

ai, amas gulisxmobs iliaseuli<br />

triada `mamuli, ena,<br />

sarwmunoeba~ (da ara `ena, mamuli<br />

sarwmunoeba~, rogorc e.w.<br />

`cnobadi saxeebi~ warmosTqvamen<br />

SecdomiT). ai, am triadas unda<br />

davubrunoT bolo Jams dabeCavebuli<br />

Cveni eri, raTa kvlavac maradisobas<br />

gausworos Tvali.<br />

Tu gsurs mSvidoba,<br />

emzade omisTvis!<br />

misasalmebelia `xelisuflebis~<br />

(ratom vsvam am sityvas<br />

brWyalebSi, odnav qveviT mogaxsenebT)<br />

mSvidobinad, arCevnebiT<br />

Secvlis survili, quCis aqciebze<br />

da mitingebze uaris Tqma. ki,<br />

rogor ara, oRond im SemTxveva-<br />

Si, roca saqme gvaqvs cud an<br />

Tundac Zalian cud xelisuflebasTan,<br />

axla ki Cven Sinaur<br />

mters vupirispirdebiT. sxvaTa-<br />

Soris, es Tqvens mierac iyo<br />

gacxadebuli pirveli noembris<br />

preskonfereniaze.<br />

XIV saukuneSi cnobili qar-<br />

Tveli Tavadi da sazogado moRvawe<br />

qucna amirejibi niadag aRma-daRma<br />

dahqroda da diplomatiiT<br />

cdilobda lang-Temuris<br />

laSqrobebis Sekavebas, avadmyofuri<br />

fsiqikis dampyrobma ki mainc<br />

rvajer aaoxra saqarTvelo.<br />

me ara mgonia, rom sulieri<br />

mdgradobiT saakaSvili bevrad<br />

ukeTesi iyos lang-Temurze.<br />

batono biZina, rogorc xsenebul<br />

preskonferenciaze brZaneT,<br />

im SemTxvevaSic ki Tu saakaSvils<br />

Tundac mis mier morgebul<br />

konstituciur CarCoebSi<br />

ver daabrunebT da igi xalxis<br />

nebas win aRudgeba, Tqven sxva<br />

saSualebebiT SesZlebT mis `da-<br />

SoSminebas~ (es ukanaskneli Cemi<br />

sityva _ g.q.).<br />

intuicia mkarnaxobs, rom<br />

Tqven martooden saerTaSoriso<br />

zewolisa da xalxis nebis gamoxatulebis<br />

imedi ara gaqvT, da<br />

ar gaqvT imitom, rom, I. Tundac<br />

aSS-is zewolisa Tu rCevis miuxedavad<br />

saakaSvilis gadadgomis<br />

imedi minimaluria. mas<br />

moulodnelad romc gauCndes<br />

aseTi survili,<br />

Zneli dasajerebelia,<br />

`saqmeSi gasulma~ Tu<br />

gasvrilma Tanagundelebma<br />

amis neba darTon.<br />

II. xalxis nebis mSvidobian<br />

gamoxatulebas es<br />

reJimi fizikur Zalas<br />

daupirispirebs. simarTle<br />

mogaxsenoT, didi<br />

daZabulobiTa da SiSiT<br />

vuyurebdi preskonferencias,<br />

romelsac SeiZleboda<br />

`JurnalistTa~<br />

Soris dapirispireba da<br />

imedi<br />

meore<br />

sulia<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

inspirirebuli Cxubi<br />

mohyoloda, rac, albaT,<br />

Tqvens rezidenciaSi<br />

specnazis SemoWriT<br />

dasruldeboda. gavixsenoT<br />

`kavkasiis~ magali-<br />

Ti. Tu am mcdelobas<br />

Tqvens teritoriaze<br />

naklebi warmateba elis,<br />

sxvagan win veraferi daudgeba.<br />

Rrmad viyoT darwmunebuli,<br />

rom saTanado<br />

uwyebebSi ramdenime mzakvruli<br />

proeqti igegmeba,<br />

maT Soris teraqtebi<br />

da TviTteraqtebi,<br />

fsevdoopoziciuri partiebis mier<br />

mowyobili manifestaciebi da<br />

areulobebi, Tqveni `momxreebis~<br />

aRiarebiTi Cvenebebi da Tqven<br />

warmoidgineT, saomari moqmedebebic<br />

ki romelime ajanyebuli regionis~<br />

winaaRmdeg. am ukanasknel<br />

varauds mxars ubams ruse-<br />

Tis dazvervis Sefis al. Sliaxturovis<br />

bolo gancxadeba afxazeTsa<br />

da cxinvalis regionSi<br />

mosalodneli provokaciebis Sesaxeb.<br />

erTi sityviT, sabolood,<br />

xalxis quCaSi gamosvlas da ZalasTan<br />

Zalis dapirispirebas<br />

mxolod saswauli Tu agvacilebs,<br />

politikur brZolaSi ki<br />

saswaulebi ar xdeba. mwams, am<br />

ambavs arc Tqven gamoricxavT,<br />

magram ori mizezis gamo ver amxelT:<br />

erTi imitom, rom gulwrfelad<br />

ar gsurT e.w. kadafizacia<br />

da meorec imitom, rom... es<br />

meore mizezi, modiT, marto Cven<br />

vicodeT.<br />

yvelas megobari<br />

aravis megobari araa<br />

sicruea is, rom viTomdac<br />

politikaSi megobroba ar arsebobs,<br />

_ politikanebis moWorili<br />

ambavia es. roca politikaSi<br />

eriskacebi midian, maSin samSoblos<br />

siyvaruliT gulanTebuli<br />

adamianebi, Tundac gansxvavebuli<br />

xasiaTisani, aucileblad megobrdebian.<br />

amis magaliTi zviadi da<br />

merabi iyvnen. magram amasTanave<br />

`yvelas megobari aravis megobari<br />

ara aris~-o ambobda platoni.<br />

diaxac, saqarTvelos gamTlianebisa<br />

da gamarjvebis mosurne<br />

kacma yvelasTan unda iTanamSromlos,<br />

magram yvelasTan, gansakuTrebiT<br />

ki iseT politikur<br />

ZalebTan damegobreba, romelTac<br />

kviraSi Svidi paraskevi aqvT da<br />

viTarca lerwamni niavis mcireoden<br />

daqrolvazec aqeT-iqiT irwevian,<br />

miuRebelia. miuRebelia<br />

es imitom, rom sazogadoeba maT<br />

safuZvlianad ar endoba.<br />

mliqvnelebis amocnoba iolia,<br />

farisevlebisa ki rTuli.<br />

farisevlebi Rupaven ideebs,<br />

saqmeebs, qveynebsa da xalxebs.<br />

farisevlebma awames macxovari.<br />

fariseveli is kacia, romelic<br />

ar mliqvnelobs da imanWeba<br />

TavkacTan, magram yvelafers<br />

sakuTar interesebs anacvalebs,<br />

sityviT da gamoxedviT eriska-<br />

cia, magram Tvals miefareba Tu<br />

ara, saTavisod Wris da keravs.<br />

arcTu ise didi xnis winaT<br />

Tqveni da Tqveni fondis saxeli-<br />

Ta da Rvawlis xsenebiT erTma<br />

diacma Tqvens mona-morCils cudi<br />

saqme moswia _ erovnuli saqmis<br />

keTebaSi xeli SeuSala. am<br />

ambis gamowvlilviT Tqma axla<br />

arc egebis da arc amis droa,<br />

magram gaxsenebiT imitom gavixsene,<br />

rom momavalSi aseTi recidivebi<br />

aviciloT Tavidan.<br />

ager, batono, mere faqti:<br />

Tqven rom erT-erT politikur<br />

partias TanamromSloba SesTavazeT,<br />

imave Tu meore dRes misma<br />

erT-erTma liderma `kavkasiis~<br />

eTerSi ise isaubra, TiTqos,<br />

sxva politikuri Zalebis arCeva,<br />

TqvenTan erTad misi partiis<br />

prerogativac iyo. ai, farisevlobis<br />

erTi aSkara magaliTi!<br />

RvTis gulisaTvis, mendeT, rasac<br />

vambob _ aseTia yvela patriotis<br />

gancda, mendeT aseve, rom<br />

patriotTa umetesoba, romelic<br />

uaRresad gaxarebulia biZina<br />

ivaniSvilis did politikaSi da<br />

brZolis velze gamoCeniT, gulis<br />

kuTxeSi mcire tkivils mainc<br />

ganicdis uyuradRebobis gamo.<br />

isini imasac xvdebian, rom<br />

SesaZloa, brZolis pirvel etapze,<br />

`politikuri Calmac~ aucilebelia,<br />

magram Tu saxlis balavari<br />

sworad ar daido, kedeli,<br />

rkinisac rom iyos, mainc gadaiqceva.<br />

aris erTi aseTi WeSmaritebac:<br />

niWieri kaci erTxel

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

Tu SemogTavazebs sakuTar samsaxurs, uni-<br />

Wo ki kars agitalaxebs. amitom niWier<br />

kacs, gulanTebul patriots Sen unda dauZaxo.<br />

yvelaze niWieri is aris, visac ni-<br />

Wieri uyvars.<br />

endeT, magram SeamowmeT Tqveni axlobeli<br />

politikuri Tanamzraxvelebi: vis uweven<br />

da vis ara rekomendacias. Tavadac<br />

TqviT da aqamdec icoda xalxma, rom biZina<br />

ivaniSvili kadrebs jer profesionalizmis,<br />

mere ki patiosnebisa da megobrobis mixedviT<br />

arCevs. gTxovT, am CamonaTvals Tav-<br />

Si daumatoT `patriotizmi~, an arada, rogorc<br />

cxonebuli revaz TabukaSvili ityoda,<br />

visurvebdi profesionalizmi patriotizmis<br />

erT-erTi umTavresi gamoxatuleba<br />

iyos TqvenTvis.<br />

ena uklitod morbedi<br />

RvTis gangeba aseTia: Wkviani kaci mcireds<br />

saubrobs, suleli an avanturisti _<br />

bevrs. kargad uTqvams la oZis _ `brZeni<br />

dums, umecari laybobs~-o, magram arc vaxtang<br />

VI-is naTqvamia naklebi: `ena uklitod<br />

morbedi, Wiria ulxinobeli~. qarTvelma<br />

kacma kargad icis am sibrZnis yadri _ er-<br />

Txel ki mousmens soflis Saraze gamomdgar<br />

`oqropirs~, magram mere da mere yurs<br />

aRar aTxovebs da yeeniviT gaamasxravebs.<br />

Svidi <strong>weli</strong>a am dReSia qarTveli kaci, Svidi<br />

<strong>weli</strong>a neronis usamarTlobiT, takimasxarobiTa<br />

da sisuleleebiT itanjeba. amas<br />

imitom vambob, rom biZina ivaniSvilis gamoCeniT<br />

da misi sidarbaisliT gulze moefina<br />

sazogadoebas: ampartavnebis wil didsulovneba,<br />

mtrobis wil siyvaruli, mSiSrobis<br />

wil vaJkacoba, laybobis wil mozomili<br />

sityva gaigona da dainaxa. imaze didi<br />

piari ra unda iyos TqvenTvis, rom sakuTari<br />

personiT arasdros SegibezrebiaT Tavi<br />

xalxisTvis. merwmuneT, es 5,5 miliardze<br />

naklebi qoneba ar aris da misi gaflangva<br />

politikuri gakotrebis tolfasi iqneba.<br />

Cemi, rogorc erTi rigiTi qarTvelisa<br />

da amomrCevlis survilia, rom Tqveni saxe<br />

da sityva arc amas aqeT gacvTes. xalxis<br />

winaSe sajaro da satelevizio gamosvlebi<br />

kvlavac mkacrad reglamentirebuli iyos,<br />

xolo sityva Zalian mokle da konkretuli.<br />

SeiZleba ar gesiamovnoT an iucxooT,<br />

magram am mxriv, stalinis gamocdileba unikaluria.<br />

zeviT naTqvamidan gamomdinare, SeiZleba<br />

gakvirveba gamoiwvios Cemma meore<br />

survilma: saWiroa kidev ufro gaaqtiureba,<br />

oRond ise, rom kulminacias saWiro<br />

dros miaRwios. ismis SekiTxva: rogor unda<br />

gaaqtiurdeT Tu televiziiT da sajaro<br />

gamosvlebiT ipasiurebT. ai, aq aris saWiro<br />

iseTi gundi politikuri mociqulebisa,<br />

romelTac darbaiseli oratorebisa da<br />

WeSmariti mamuliSvilebis reputacia aqvT.<br />

aRebuli tempis dagdeba ar SeiZleba. es<br />

pirveli SemTxvevaa, roca e.w. xelisufleba<br />

sakuTari karis usafrTxoebaze gadaer-<br />

To da TamaSi mis naxevarze mimdinareobs.<br />

safexburTo enaze rom vTqvaT, Setevebi unda<br />

gagrZeldes manamde, sanam mowinaaRmdege<br />

sabolood ar danebdeba, jerjerobiT ki angariSi<br />

mxolod 1:0-ia. sakmarisia, seriozuli<br />

kontrSeteva gamogveparos, rom yvelaferi<br />

wyalSi gadaiyreba.<br />

zeviT ramdenime xifaTi da kontrSeteva<br />

ki vaxseneT, magram araferi gviTqvams<br />

iseT sibilweebze, rogoricaa piradad<br />

Tqveni da Tqveni ojaxis Seuracxyofis<br />

survili, Worebis agoreba, daqiravebuli<br />

piitikosebis skabrezuli gaaqtiureba da<br />

a.S. Tu simSvides SevinarCunebT, am Setevebis<br />

mogerieba ar gagviWirdeba, radgan am<br />

mxriv aqeT gacilebiT didi resursia. Tanac<br />

xom viciT, rom, roca sayaned Waobian<br />

niadags vamzadebT, bayayebis yiyinsac unda<br />

SeveguoT.<br />

SeiZleba bevrma gaikvirvos Tu rodidan<br />

movkide xeli iseT umadur saqmes, rogoric<br />

mrCevlobaa da romeli solomon lioni- Ze<br />

var, magram aris Jami, roca umoqmedoba da<br />

dumili Ralatia. me aq vdgavar da sxvagvarad<br />

ar ZalmiZs!<br />

Cveni samSoblo axla Zalian gaWirvebulia,<br />

gaWirvebulisaTvis ki imedi meore sulia.<br />

imedi gamoCnda, magram Tu igi daikarga,<br />

saqarTvelo erTxans suliT daobldeba.<br />

gela qoqiaSvili<br />

saerTo gazeTi<br />

ukavSirdeba Tu ara vasil sanoZis<br />

daWris ambavi totalizatorebSi momxdar<br />

saerTaSoriso xasiaTis afioras?<br />

Sss-s generaluri inspeqciis ufros<br />

vasil sanoZis daWris ambavma mexis gavardnis<br />

efeqti gamoiwvia. oficialuri<br />

versiiT, TiTqos mas tabeluri iaraRi<br />

gauvarda da Tavis areSi daiWra, Tumca<br />

sazogadoebam es informacia naklebad<br />

daijera. isic iTqva, rom daWramde sano-<br />

Ze restoran `puris saxlSi~ imyofeboda<br />

da iqauroba nasvam mgomareobaSi<br />

myofma datova. am sufraze ramdenime<br />

adamiani iyo, maT Soris frangi stumrebic.<br />

Sss-s administraciis ufrosma So-<br />

Ta xizaniSvilma oficialuri informacia<br />

gaavrcela, rom sanoZes iaraRi sakuTar<br />

binaSi gauvarda.<br />

sanoZis mezoblebis TqmiT, misi binidan<br />

xmauri ki SemoesmaT, Tumca iaraRidan<br />

gasrolis xma ar gaugoniaT. am informaciam<br />

garkveuli eWvi maSinve gaaCina.<br />

ise vrceldeboda xmebi, rom sanoZes<br />

an esroles, anda Tavis mokvla aiZules.<br />

uflebadamcvelebi am incidents sandro<br />

girgvlianis mkvlelobis saqmes ukavSirebdnen,<br />

radgan swored im periodSi gamoitana<br />

evrosasamarTlom am saqmeze gadawyvetileba.<br />

mkvlelobis mcdelobaa<br />

Tu TviTmkvlelobis, am saqmeSi xelisuflebis<br />

xeli ureviao.<br />

sanoZe ,,saswrafo daxmarebis~ avtomanqaniT<br />

gadaiyvanes RuduSauris klinikaSi<br />

da dacvis zomebi ise iyo gaZlierebuli,<br />

saavadmyofoSi pacientebsac ki<br />

ar uSvebdnen. mogvianebiT, mZimed daWrili<br />

sanoZe israelis erT-erT klinikaSi<br />

gadaiyvanes da male es ambavi yvelas miaviwyda.<br />

sad imyofeba sanoZe da ra mdgomareobaSia,<br />

amis Sesaxeb xelisufleba<br />

dums. `saerTo gazeTs~ isic uTxres,<br />

rom igi gamonjarmTelda, saqarTveloSi<br />

dabrunda da Sss-Si Tanamdebobazec daniSnes,<br />

Tumca am faqts ar axmaurebeno.<br />

sanoZis irgvliv rom Savi Rrubeli<br />

grovdeboda, amis Sesaxeb bevrad adre<br />

gaxda cnobili. mas prokuraturasTan<br />

dapirispireba, rom hqonda<br />

da mis winaaRmdeg es uwyeba kompromatebs<br />

rom agrovebda, es informacia<br />

masmediiT zafxulSi<br />

gavrcelda. sanoZis daWrasac am<br />

faqts ukavSirebdnen. sanoZem prokuraturis<br />

ramdenime TanamSromeli<br />

daaWerina da SurisZiebis mizniT,<br />

prokuraturas misi daWerac<br />

undoda qrTamis aRebis braldebi-<br />

To. sabolood am yvelafers yofili<br />

policieli Seewira, romelsac<br />

e.w. TaRliTobisTvis 12<br />

<strong>weli</strong> miusajes, radgan man sano-<br />

Zis sawinaaRmdego Cveneba ar misca.<br />

cota xnis win `saerTo gazeTs~<br />

anonimurma wyarom sagulisxmo<br />

informacia miawoda, romelic<br />

sanoZis daWris mizezebs ki ara<br />

Tavad daWris faqtsac eWvqveS ayenebs.<br />

Cven am informaciis sizusteze Tavs ver<br />

davdebT, magram yvela versias aqvs arsebobis<br />

ufleba, amitom Tavs valdebulad<br />

vTvliT mkiTxvels mivawodoT. miTumetes,<br />

rom, rogorc gviTxres, es samTavrobo<br />

wreebidan gamoJonili informaciaa.<br />

sazogadoebas kargad axsovs im fexburTelebis<br />

ambavi, romlebic e.w. gayidul<br />

matCebs TamaSobdnen. es fexburTelebi<br />

ki dasajes, magram saqme aqve Sewyda.<br />

vin ukveTavda maT aseT TamaSebs sazogadoebisTvis<br />

ucnobi darCa. wyaros<br />

informaciiT, am `biznesSi~ kargad gaTvlili<br />

sqema muSaobda, romelsac merabiSvilis<br />

uwyeba kurirebda. uSualod ki<br />

vasil sanoZe xelmZRvanelobda.<br />

axla ki konkretulad am sqemaze visaubroT.<br />

mogexsenebaT, totalizatorebi<br />

mTel msoflioSi da maT Soris aziis<br />

qveynebSic muSaobs. uceb aRmoCnda,<br />

rom yazaxeTSi, uzbekeTSi, yirgizeTSi<br />

da ufro metic, CineTSi viRacviRacebi<br />

Zalze seriozul fsonebs<br />

debdnen qarTul safexbur-<br />

To gundebze, Tumca jobs, Cvens<br />

wyaros movusminoT:<br />

`100.000 aSS dolarze naklebi<br />

arcerTi fsoni ar yofila.<br />

ranairi gulSematkivari<br />

unda iyos Tbiliseli kaci Tundac<br />

Tbilisis `dinamosi~, rom<br />

yazaxeTsa da CineTSi Cavides<br />

totalizatorSi fsonis dasadebad.<br />

gaxsovT, gayidul Tama-<br />

Sebze rusTavis `olimpikis~ da<br />

sxva gundebis fexburTelebi Cavardnen.<br />

Cinelebma da yazaxebma<br />

mgoni isic ar ician, sad aris<br />

rusTavi da samtredia. cxadia,<br />

rom am gundebze qarTvelebi<br />

debdnen fsons, romlebic Sss-s<br />

TanamSromlebi iyvnen, maT Soris<br />

yofila sanoZec. igi uSua-<br />

lod xelmZRvanelobda am yvelafers. es<br />

fsonebi iseT xalxis saxeliT ideboda,<br />

romelTa gaSifvrac, cxadia, xelisuflebas<br />

ar awyobda. dadebdnen am 100.000s<br />

Tu milions da zustad ise damTavrdeboda<br />

TamaSi, rogorc winaswar iyo<br />

gaTvlili. amiT ki ormag Tanxas igebdnen.<br />

xsenebul qveynebSi uzarmazari totalizatorebia,<br />

sadac Zalze didi fuli<br />

trialebs. specialurad SearCies<br />

iseTi qveynebi, sadac ufro gulubryvilo<br />

xalxi cxovrobs. amxela fsonebma<br />

da mogebebma zeda eSelonebSi eWvi gaa-<br />

Cina da daiwyo gamoZieba. cxadia, viRacaze<br />

unda gasuliyven. gavidnen kidec,<br />

magram maTi gaSifvra ar awyobdaT. adgnen<br />

da am yvelafers Seswires sanoZe,<br />

iseve rogorc, Tavis droze irakli kodua.<br />

ki imizezeben raRacebs, magram yvelam<br />

xom icis, rom kodua realurad,<br />

iaraRis bizness Seewira. sodi faqtobrivad,<br />

gaauqmes da mas Sss-Si sakmaod<br />

mokrZalebuli Tanamdeboba misces.<br />

sanoZe rom daeWiraT, alaparakdeboda,<br />

rac xelisuflebas ar awyobda. am<br />

qveynebidan uzarmazari Tanxebia wamoRebuli<br />

da saeWvoa, rom amiT marto igi<br />

sargeblobda. amitomac gaiTamaSes es<br />

daWris scena, rom sanoZe saqarTvelodan<br />

moeSorebinaT. saqme imaSia, rom Turme<br />

is sasikvdilod daWrili arc yofila.<br />

an iyo ki saerTod daWrili (sanoZis mezoblebmac<br />

xom Tqves, rom gasrolis xma<br />

ar gaugiaT – m.s.)? sxvaTa Soris eqimebisgan<br />

gamovida es informacia. mere ise<br />

gaaformes yvelaferi, rom TiTqos qorwilidan<br />

wamosul sanoZes SemTxveviT<br />

gauvarda iaraRi da uceb moaSores aqaurobas,<br />

viTom samkurnalod gauSves. Tu<br />

ar Cacxreboda am totalizatorebTan<br />

dakavSirebuli ambebi, mere albaT, imasac<br />

ityodnen, rom mokvdao. sulac aRar Camovidoda<br />

igi saqarTveloSi da romelime<br />

qveyanaSi icxovrebda.<br />

Caawyves es yvelaferi da im ramdenime<br />

fexburTelze gadatexes joxi, molaparakebuli<br />

iyvnen da Cawyobil TamaSebs<br />

TamaSobdneno. visTan iyvnen molaparakebuli,<br />

imaze ratom ar gavidnen? aq Caawyobdnen<br />

saqmes, vis rogor unda eTama-<br />

Sa, miscemdnen maT 5-5 aTas dolars,<br />

TviTon ki milionebs igebdnen. mere dai-<br />

Wires es sawyali xalxi, viRacas samudamod<br />

aukrZales fexburTis TamaSi da<br />

amiT damTavrda yvelaferi~.<br />

verafers vityviT, mSvenieri sqemaa<br />

fulis saSovnelad da miT umetes gasa-<br />

TeTreblad. ise, saeWvoa, xelisufleba<br />

am mogebebis kanonierebiT dainteresebuliyo,<br />

magram Turme aziis qveynebSi ise-<br />

Ti siswrafiT kotrdeboda totalizatorebi,<br />

rom Tavad am qveynebSi gaCenila<br />

eWvi. etyoba, kvalma saqarTvelosTan moiyvana<br />

da nacxelisufleba iZulebuli<br />

gaxda `gadamWreli zomebi~ mieRo.<br />

manana suxiSvili<br />

19

---

20 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

ggvveessaauubbrreebbaa<br />

leliko jafariZe.<br />

_ batono leliko, xelisuflebaSi<br />

areuloba dawyebula,<br />

Tqven xom araferi iciT<br />

amis Sesaxeb?<br />

_ minda danamdvilebiT<br />

giTxraT is, rac Cemi yuriT<br />

movismine. mirekaven guriidan,<br />

samegrelodan, svaneTidan, samcxe-javaxeTidan<br />

iseTi xalxi,<br />

sul rom cali fexiT Camomkidon,<br />

mainc ver vityvi maT<br />

gvar-saxelebs. es xalxi meubneba:<br />

amzadeben jars, wvrTnian<br />

da ar ikiTxavT, vis agroveben?<br />

_ probacionerebs. emuqrebian:<br />

ar wamoxvalT, isev cixeSi SegabrunebTo.<br />

yvelasTvis cnobilia, sasroleTi<br />

rom gamarTes da iq<br />

avarjiSeben xalxs. samoqalaqo<br />

omisTvis emzadebian biWebi.<br />

areuloba sWirdeba, etyoba,<br />

miSas axla, am TmaSeRebil degenerats...<br />

magram am bolo<br />

dros veRar iRebavs, Tmebs rezo<br />

amaSukelis SiSiT.<br />

miSa saakaSvilis saqme, batonebo,<br />

moTavebulia ukve,<br />

gvamia es kaci da veraviTari<br />

Tmis Rebva da vizaJisti veRar<br />

uSvelis.<br />

_ sasikvdilo dartyma ivaniSvilma<br />

miayena, Tqveni azriT?<br />

_ diax, batono da aferum,<br />

biZinas vakacobas, aqamde rom<br />

saidumlod Seinaxa Tavisi ganzraxva<br />

da moulodnelad rom<br />

Casca maxvili.<br />

awi, veRaraferi ver uSvelis<br />

saakaSvils, isea dazafruli<br />

TviTon da misi garemocva.<br />

karuselebiT cdiloben<br />

viTom situaciis gamosworebas.<br />

ager axla kvezereli gauSva<br />

da gorozia moiyvana. kvezereli<br />

rac iyo da vinc iyo,<br />

dainaxa mTelma saqarTvelom,<br />

magram goroziam ra icis soflis<br />

meurneobis? eqimi varo,<br />

rom ambobs, magas klizma rom<br />

daaWerino xelSi, t...s ver miagnebs.<br />

es ubedurebi raRacas epotinebian,<br />

magram aRaraferi uSveliT.<br />

areuloba aqvT SigniT,<br />

mTavrobaSi da es ambebi gamoaqvT<br />

iqedan. yvelaferi viciT,<br />

rac iq xdeba.<br />

_ Tqven saidan iciT, iq,<br />

mTavrobaSi ra xdeba?<br />

_ mirekaven da meubnebian:<br />

ra vqnaT, ras gvirCev?! me veubnebi:<br />

dahkariT fexi da gaiqeciT,<br />

sanam kidev droa-meTqi.<br />

sastikad eSiniaT ivaniSvilis<br />

da xalxis. male vixilavT<br />

yvela maTgans soroebSi SemZvrals,<br />

an Cemodanze Semomjdars<br />

da gaqceuls, magram roca<br />

mova samarTliani xelisufleba<br />

da erovnuli xalxi. aravis<br />

SerCeba qveynis gaRleta<br />

da gaZarcva.<br />

_ ivaniSvili Tu movida<br />

xelisuflebaSi, Tqveni azriT,<br />

samarTali izeimebs? aqa-iq,<br />

sxvaTa Soris, ar vici, ra informaciaze<br />

dayrdnobiT, magram<br />

mainc, amboben, Tuki xels<br />

saakaSvilisken iSverT, arc<br />

ivaniSvili gaxlavT qarTvelio.<br />

_ mecineba pirdapir, vin,<br />

kaco, es Worvileli kaci araa<br />

qarTveli? kargiT, raa. araqar-<br />

Tveli da kerZod, pirwavardnili<br />

somexi aris mixeil saakaSvili,<br />

amas wyali ar gauva<br />

da yvelam icis dRes es ambavi.<br />

arCevnebSi saakaSvili yvelgan<br />

agebda, magram sabolood<br />

marneuli, gardabani da es<br />

mxare Sveloda, ratom? imitom,<br />

rom, somxeTis da azerbaijanis<br />

mTavroba mouwodebda<br />

TavianT xalxs, mieciT xma saakaSvilis<br />

da SeRavaTebs da<br />

privilegiebs miiRebTo. aqvT<br />

kidevac araqarTvelebs qarTvelebTan<br />

SedarebiT privilegiebi<br />

im regionebSi, magram er-<br />

Txel da samudamod, sarqisianma<br />

da alievma daanebon Tavi saakaSvilis<br />

mxardaWeras, politikuri<br />

gvamia ukve Tqveni mixeili!<br />

qveyana Tavze engreva am<br />

aranormalurs da kidev piarze<br />

fiqrobs? saqarTvelo _ somxeTis<br />

sazRvarze rom miwisZvra<br />

moxda, gamovida es ubeduri<br />

da kidev imaze daiwyo laparaki:<br />

somxeTis teritoriaze<br />

gzebi araa gakeTebuli da imitom<br />

moxda es tragediao.<br />

kacia, axla, es? da xalxi<br />

arian, vinc am gadareulis<br />

gverdiT dganan? keTildReoba<br />

warmavalia da amaSi me TviTonac<br />

davrwmundi. 40 wlis ganmavlobaSi<br />

moskovSi araCveulebrivad<br />

vcxovrobdi, ar mak-<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

lda araferi, axla TiTqmis<br />

maTxovrad var qceuli, magram<br />

kacoba da adamianoba ar damikargavs.<br />

bargiani mkvdari ginaxavT<br />

sadme? saflavSi veravin verafers<br />

Caitans da es SesaniSnavad<br />

icis ivaniSvilma, amitomac<br />

aqvs gakeTebuli araerTi keTili<br />

saqme, qvelmoqmedeba, Worviladan<br />

da saCxeridan dawyebuli<br />

mTeli TbilisiT damTavrebuli.<br />

_ axla am yvelafers politikuri<br />

aqtivobac miemata<br />

da moiTmens amdens xelisufleba?<br />

_ dRes rom viyo 30<br />

wlis axalgazrda,<br />

davdgebodi ivaniSvilis<br />

karebTan da sadac<br />

wavidoda, gverdidan<br />

ar movcildebodi,<br />

rom misTvis damiznebuli<br />

tyvia me<br />

momxvedroda.<br />

badri patarkaciSvilis<br />

saflavs venacvale, iseTi ram<br />

kidev rom moxdes, damTavrebulia<br />

saqarTvelos ambavi.<br />

badris periodis situacia<br />

dRevandelisgan mkveTrad gansxvavdeboda,<br />

dRes xalxi Tvi-<br />

Ton aris mzad yvelafris Sesacvlelad.<br />

zogierTi ambobs, mitingebi<br />

da gamosvlebi ar unda ivaniSvils<br />

da arCevnebamde jer kidev<br />

Soriao. vin unda gamarTos<br />

mitingi. isev im opoziciam?<br />

romlebsac araerTxel da orjer<br />

erTi da igive aqvT naTqvami?<br />

arc me da arc Cveni mosaxleoba<br />

mitingze dRes aRar<br />

dadgeba am gatialebuli opoziciis<br />

gverdiT. yvelam erTnairad<br />

moiWra Tavi, qalbatonma<br />

burjanaZemac, romelic sabolood<br />

damTavrda 26 maiss Tavis<br />

`krebianad~ da momxreebianad.<br />

kai, batono, gasagebia, am<br />

bodiSi da, JRvintian saakaSvils<br />

TvalSi eCxireba ivaniSvili,<br />

magram leiboristebs ra<br />

bzikma ukbinaT, rom gamoxtebian<br />

da tlikineben. ver xedaven,<br />

vin arian TviTon da vinaa bi-<br />

Zina ivaniSvili?<br />

_ batono leliko, ase yvelaferi<br />

mogwonT ivaniSvilis?<br />

saerTod unaklod migaCniaT?<br />

_ Cemo iranda, me Cemi qveynis<br />

bed-iRbals dadarajebuli<br />

kaci var da Cemi xalxi minda<br />

gavafrTxilo _ vici, ivaniSvilma<br />

imedi gamoufxizla<br />

xalxs, magram, xalxo, biZina<br />

aris biZina da RmerTi CvenTvis<br />

aris erTi. ar gavaRmerToT<br />

ivaniSvili, kerpad nu warmovidgenT,<br />

arc is davRupoT da<br />

Tavsac gavufrTxildeT.<br />

rac Seexeba imas, maqvs Tu<br />

ara SeniSvna. maqvs. biZina<br />

ivaniSvili aris zedmetad<br />

inteligenti. am mTavrobas ki<br />

muSti unda cxvirSi. amas<br />

ver gaakeTebs ivaniSvili da<br />

es unda gavakeToT Cven, xalxma.<br />

biZina kulturiT aRsavse<br />

kacia da es gamoCnda preskonferenciaze.<br />

gafacicebiT vumzerdi,<br />

sad SeeSleboda, yve-<br />

lam vnaxeT, rac moxda. es ra<br />

vnaxe, ra ambavi iyo, kaco.<br />

_ preskonferenciaze?<br />

_ diax, batono, diax. vin<br />

iyvnen is xalxi, Jurnalistebi<br />

erqvaT imaT? sad iyaviT, ratom<br />

ar CandiT, magaliTad,<br />

Tqven, anda jaba xubua, sxva<br />

patiosani Jurnalistebi?<br />

_ batono leliko, Tqveni<br />

azriT, ratom aRmoCnda zogierTi<br />

Jurnalisti im dRes ivaniSvilsa<br />

da xalxs Soris barieris,<br />

damabrkoleblis rol-<br />

Si? ratom Cadgnen SuaSi,<br />

Tqveni azriT?<br />

_ imitom rom, mTavroba,<br />

xelisufleba, parlamenti kargad<br />

xvdeba safrTxis seriozulobas,<br />

radgan maTi arsebobis<br />

vada TandaTan iwureba. vinc im<br />

dRes ivaniSvils Seupovrad<br />

utevda, ase vTqvaT, yvela aris<br />

gamZRari fuliT am xelisuflebisgan,<br />

zogi farulad, zogi<br />

_ aSkarad.<br />

rom laparakobdnen, ivaniSvilma<br />

fuli ruseTSi iSova da<br />

amitom ruseTis kaciao. fuli<br />

taSkentSi rom eSova, biSkek-<br />

Si, anda sxva planetaze, ras<br />

ityodnen maSin?! ivaniSvili<br />

ucxoplaneteliao?!<br />

gaminawyendebian am simarTlisTvis<br />

is Jurnalistebi Tu<br />

ara, sul ar mainteresebs _ I<br />

arxisTvis, `rusTavi-2~-sTvis,<br />

`imedisTvis~ arasdros mimicia<br />

interviu da arc vapireb, simarTle<br />

Tu gindaT.<br />

_ Jurnalistma unda dasvas<br />

kiTxva, amis gamo gabutva ar<br />

SeiZleba, batono leliko.<br />

_ gasagebia, Tqven Jurnalisti<br />

xarT da mxars uWerT<br />

kolegebs, magram is simarTle,<br />

rac unda hqondes Jurnalists,<br />

vamCnev, rom ara aqvs<br />

yvelas.<br />

ki, aucilebelia mZafri SekiTxvebi,<br />

magram gaaCnia dros,<br />

viTarebas, situacias. ivaniSvils<br />

jer araferi dauSavebia<br />

iseTi, mtrad rom gadaekidos<br />

vinme da jibrSi Caudges.<br />

Jurnalistebi im dRes<br />

Saliko, valiko da yvela gaCumdes<br />

da visac rogor SeuZlia, ise<br />

dadges ivaniSvilis gverdiT...<br />

yvavebis xrovas hgavdnen,<br />

romlebsac sadRac<br />

sakbilo egulebodaT.<br />

es igivea, cxens rom<br />

ver miswvde da unagirs<br />

dauwyo cema. salanZRavi<br />

da jibrSi<br />

Casadgomi saqarTvelo-<br />

Si cotaa?<br />

rogorc gavige,<br />

ivaniSvili apirebs<br />

qarTul operas Zveli<br />

dideba daubrunos. me<br />

vici, rogor imarTeba<br />

metropoliten-opera,<br />

kovengardeni, la skala,<br />

imaT veravin daurekavs<br />

da ubrZanebs:<br />

dRes es speqtakli gauSvi,<br />

xval _ meoreo.<br />

robiko sturua Teatridan<br />

imitom daiTxoves,<br />

rom gza gaeTavisuflebinaT<br />

im idioturi `qeTo da kotesTvis~,<br />

romelsac me ukve<br />

vuwode `qeTo da kutu~. vis<br />

ra jandabad unda is uazroba,<br />

repertuarSi yoveldRe miyolebiT<br />

rom aris Casmuli.<br />

davaneboT Tavi sisuleeebs.<br />

gamovfxizldeT da Cvens saqmes<br />

mivxedoT. daanebon am e.w. opozicionerebma<br />

ivaniSvils Tavi,<br />

nu aqvT kudi yavarze gadebuli,<br />

arafris maqnisi araa arc<br />

erTi da nu iqaCebian. arasaparlamento<br />

da saparlamento<br />

opozicia erTnairia TiTqmis<br />

_`me TviTon~ Tu `Sen Tvi-<br />

Ton~, partiaa axla es? saxeli<br />

Seucvlia axlaxan, magram<br />

es ar uSvelis magaT. TorTla-<br />

Ze, rom aris kidev, es kacobis<br />

anomalia, esa...<br />

Saliko, valiko da<br />

yvela gaCumdes da visac<br />

rogor SeuZlia,<br />

ise dadges axla ivaniSvilis<br />

gverdiT, er-<br />

Ti saqmisTvis _ saqarTvelosTvis.<br />

iranda kalandaZe

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

oriode dRis win veris baRSi<br />

sazogadoebriv-politikuri gaerTianeba<br />

`sruliad saqarTvelos xsnis<br />

erovnuli frontis~ riggareSe sagangebo<br />

yrilobaze gaxldiT miwveuli,<br />

sadac `frontis~ mier Catarebuli<br />

sociologiuri gamoki-<br />

Txvis Sedegebi gvamcnes.<br />

kiTxva: _ vis airCevdiT winam-<br />

ZRolad, vis andobT qveynis marTvis<br />

arsebuli sistemis da xelisuflebis<br />

axliT Secvlas; Tu,<br />

darCes arsebuli sistema am xelisuflebiT?<br />

gamokiTxvis Sedegebi<br />

ase gadanawilda: _ 1. saxelisuflebo(saakaSvili,<br />

bokeria, ugulava...) _<br />

7%; 2. saxelisuflebo<br />

opozicia (TargamaZe, al-<br />

asania...); 3. radikaluri<br />

opozicia (burjanaZe, ga-<br />

CeCilaZe, sanikiZe...) _<br />

0,4%; 4. naTelaSvili Salva<br />

_ 1%;; 5. opoziciuri inteligencia(gafrindaSvili,<br />

CxartiSvili, xaWapuriZe)<br />

6. ivaniSvil-ivanaSvili<br />

an misi partiagaerTianeba<br />

_ 17%; 7. akaki<br />

jorjaZe _ 62%; 8. aravis<br />

_ 10%<br />

martivi gamoTvlaa, ra procentebic<br />

darCa, gadaanawileT maTze,<br />

romelTac procentebi ar mivuwere,<br />

_ mapatieT da, e.w sociologiuri<br />

kvleviT miRebulma procentebma ise<br />

gamaognes, im pawawunebs veRar `CavuRrmavdi.~<br />

faqtia, baton akakis xelT upyria<br />

ori kviris manZilze gamokiTxvaSi<br />

monawileTa mier Sevsebuli<br />

blankebi, magram vin arian gamokiTxulebi?<br />

_ 62%-is Semxedvares<br />

iseTi azri gamiCnda, rom isini batoni<br />

akakis gaerTianebis wevrebis<br />

axlobel-naTesavebi unda iyvnen. Cemi<br />

saqmianobidan gamomdinare yvelanair<br />

socialur jgufTan Tu calkeul<br />

pirTan miwevs urTierToba, _<br />

ra vqna, Tuki udides umravlesobas,<br />

araTu xsenebuli sazogadoebriv-politikuri<br />

organizacia, baton<br />

akakis pirovnebis Sesaxeb ar<br />

smeniaT araferi...<br />

rogorc ityvian, `es maTi problemaa~,<br />

magram 1 noembrs specialurad<br />

gamocemuli (aseTi warwera<br />

aqvs) `sityva~ #7 rom wavikiTxe,<br />

pirskata meca, _ batoni akaki ucnaurad<br />

akavSirebs erTmaneTTan sakuTar<br />

misias da qarTveli eris ar-<br />

Cevans: fuli Tu ufali?<br />

`fizikurad Seiqmna piroba, Ti-<br />

Tqos `iqiT~ pirispir dadgnen saakaSvili<br />

da ivaniSvili, da TiTqos<br />

maT Soris unda gakeTdes arCevani,<br />

ase xdeba am Temis `aJitireba~; magram,<br />

sinamdvileSi ers, qveyanas,<br />

qarTvelobas asarCevi gvaqvs ufro<br />

didi, ufro mniSvnelovani: fuli,<br />

Tu ufali?~<br />

gasagebia, rom fulSi ivaniSvil;i<br />

igulisxmeba, magram vin aris<br />

Sefaruli uflis saxelqveS, vin<br />

moiazreba uflis sityvis momtanad?<br />

_ patriarqi rom ar igulisxmeba,<br />

cxadia, samoqalaqo-politikur<br />

sarbielzea saubari.<br />

batoni akaki brZanebs, maisis<br />

bolos gancdili marcxis Semdeg<br />

da manamdec, gvpirdebodnen seqtemberSi<br />

gamoCenas, moalparakebebic<br />

maSin ganvaaxloTo, magram saerTod<br />

gaqra asparezidan `radikaluri<br />

opozicia~, politikuri arena<br />

mTlianad mosufTavdao. oqtombris-<br />

Tvis, roca ukan movbrundi (uarvhyavi<br />

Cemi naTqvami `davamTavre~ da<br />

sofelSi wavedi) da mzad viyaviT<br />

eri arCevanisTvis, sagangebo<br />

yrilobac davniSneT,<br />

ivaniSvilic gamovida brZolis<br />

asparezzeo, _ ras niSnavs<br />

es ganacxadi, ivaniSvili<br />

anu fuli daupirispirda<br />

jorjaZes, anu ufals? _ sxva<br />

araferi ikiTxeba amaSi...<br />

`pirdapir, SiSvlad gamoCnda<br />

miliardeli, dRemde<br />

xalxSi mxolod mecenatad<br />

cnobili pirovneba sakmaod<br />

Tamami, ambiciuri gancxadebebiT<br />

da daisva sakiTxi: an saakaSvili<br />

da misi reJimi, an<br />

erTi ivaniSvili, romelic ambobs:<br />

CemTan modiT, me gadagarCenT!<br />

_ satyuara am dros,<br />

ra Tqma unda, fulia!~<br />

rogorc maxsovs, ufali fulSi<br />

ki ar xedavs borotebas, aramed<br />

fulis borotad gamoyenebaSi...<br />

`ar dgas sakiTxi, saakaSvili Tu<br />

ivaniSvili, es orive erTi mxarea<br />

sxvadasxva pirovnebiT warmodgenili.<br />

vimeoreb: pirovnulad ivaniSvilTan<br />

araviTari pretenzia ar maqvs, piriqiT,<br />

mivesalmebi mis nabijs, Tumca<br />

ver getyviT, icis Tu ara man, raSi<br />

gayo Tavi. Tu icis (me mgonia icis!),<br />

maSin es sxva salaparako Temaa... mTavaria,<br />

eri, qarTveloba mivxvdeT, ra<br />

TamaSia, droSi ra movlenasTan<br />

gvaqvs saqme, politikur avanscenaze<br />

gamosuli yvela `mxsneli~ ratom<br />

iTxovs Cvens mxardaWeras~, _ kiTxvas<br />

svams batoni akaki.<br />

nuTu vinmes, sadme gaugonia an<br />

unaxavs erTi kacis gaerTianeba? batoni<br />

akakic xom saqarTvelos mosaxleobis<br />

mxardaWeras iTxovs, Tanamoazreebs<br />

ikrebs, maS raSia saqme?<br />

garda amisa, Tu `esalmeba~<br />

ivaniSvilis gamoCenas, iqve ratom-<br />

Ra `emSvidobeba?~<br />

`fulze da erT fulian adamianze<br />

nu avagebT Cvens momavals!~ _<br />

lozungiviT styorcna gazeTis<br />

mkiTxvels batonma akakim.<br />

momiteveT, Tu azrobriv wyobas<br />

erTgvarad areulad iRebT, gormaxebian<br />

ukidegano iluziis velze<br />

davqrivar baton akakisTan erTad,<br />

miTumetes, rom batoni akaki flobs<br />

saidumlos, xsnis ra gzas davadgeT,<br />

magram ar amxels...<br />

baton akakis ar emeteba pativcemuli<br />

ivaniSvili (b-iZina!) SarSi<br />

gasaxvevad da gasawirad, miTumetes,<br />

rom icis, igi ar aris mxsneli.<br />

`mdidars~ gadasawyveti hqonia, dadges<br />

xalxTan Tu xalxi miixmos da<br />

ultilatumis stilSi arCevanis<br />

saSualeba misces, uTxras: memsaxureT,<br />

qveyana CamabareT da safasurs<br />

miiRebT.<br />

`drois moTxovna aseTia: yovel<br />

`savles~ SeuZlia iqces `pavled~;<br />

`erovnuli frontis~ kari Riaa<br />

yvelasTvis! ras izams batoni biZina?...<br />

_ vfiqrob, safiqrali masala<br />

miveciT, Tu waikiTxa man guldasmiT<br />

Cveni gazeTi Tavisi `mrCevelebisgan~<br />

ganmartoebiT.~<br />

amgvari msjeloba dapatiJebas<br />

unda waagavdes, ara? _ magram aqve<br />

gvaxsenebs batoni akaki, rom biZina<br />

ivaniSvili patarkaciSvili _ kvantriSvilis<br />

duetis bania, `trios~<br />

wevri da kidev erTxel gvafrTxilebs,<br />

ar gavcvaloT samSoblo<br />

fulze. amas isev is mosdevs, rom<br />

araferi iqneboda ufulo ivaniSvili<br />

da, rom `erovnuli frontis~<br />

kari Riaa yvelasTvis da yvelas<br />

yvelafrad gadaqceva SeuZlia.<br />

ra Tqma unda, yvelas SeuZlia<br />

ganicados metamorfoza da sxvaTa-<br />

Soris, `erovnuli frontis~ karSi<br />

Seusvleladac...<br />

arian adamianebi, Cveni sazogadoebis<br />

wevrebi, romlebic interesdebian,<br />

ratom ambobs batoni jor-<br />

fuli Tu `ufali~,<br />

saxelad akaki?!<br />

akaki jorjaZe _ 62% :-)<br />

jaZe, rom mis sagangebo yrilobas<br />

`daamTxvia~ ivaniSvilma sakuTari<br />

`politikuri vnebebis~ gamomzeureba<br />

da ratom ar unda CaTvalon,<br />

rom piriqiT, jorjaZem daamTxvia<br />

Tavisi yriloba swored rom sagangebod<br />

ivaniSvilis gamoCenas?<br />

moqalaqeebs ainteresebT, 1 noembers,<br />

roca ivaniSvils preskonferencia<br />

hqonda daniSnuli, jorjaZem<br />

icoda amis Sesaxeb Tu ivaniSvilma<br />

icoda rom misi ganmaqiqebeli<br />

gazeTis specnomeri gamodioda<br />

1-Si da specialurad daamTxvia?<br />

moqalaqeebi kiTxvas svamen: _<br />

jorjaZis gaerTianebas rom hkiTxo,<br />

yvelafers daificeben, xelisuflebasTan<br />

ra kavSiri gvaqvso, magram<br />

sakiTxi ase dgas, _ kavSiri gaqvs<br />

Tu ara, arsebuli xelisuflebis<br />

saqmes rom akeTeb, xom faqtia? SeiZleba,<br />

ar mogwondes viRac, am<br />

SemTxvevaSi ivaniSvili, magram misi<br />

`armowonebis~ gamo xelisuflebis<br />

saqme unda akeTo?<br />

`frontis~ wevrebi (maT krebazec<br />

daswrebuli var), ise nTqavdnen<br />

batoni akakis yvela sityvas, vgoneb<br />

transSi iyvnen Cavardnilebi...<br />

vfiqrob, asec ar SeiZleba TanamoazreTa<br />

gameteba, codvani arian,<br />

miTumetes, raionebidan Camovidnen,<br />

gaisarjnen, daixarjnen...<br />

maia WeliZe<br />

nacionali vaiJurnalistebissawyalobeli<br />

RavRavisa da<br />

wkmutunis fonze ra<br />

adamianurad da bunebrivad gaisma<br />

ivaniSvilis Rimilnarevi,<br />

laRi fraza tripolskis mimarT:<br />

”e, biWo, Sen mainc gaCerdi,<br />

ra!” es epizodi arasodes<br />

damaviwydeba.<br />

Temur iakobaSvilma<br />

Tqva„samoqalaqo sazogadoeba<br />

dRes ufro<br />

sustia, vidre igi<br />

revoluciamde iyoo“, mgoni,<br />

nela-nela esec ipareba miSas<br />

navidan! :)))))<br />

ubralod, roca amboben,<br />

quCis saprotesto<br />

aqciebi ar gvindao,<br />

Zaan ucnauria.<br />

demokratiuli brZola protestis<br />

mraval formas icnobs.<br />

vinmes xom ar hgonia, rom parlamenti<br />

ufro mSvidobiania<br />

vidre quCa? me ganaxebT ramdenime<br />

magaliTs, sadac kargad<br />

Cans, rom rig SemTxvevaSi, parlamentSi<br />

ufro didi Setakebebi<br />

xdeba, vidre quCaSi<br />

Cemi azriT, quCaSi<br />

gamosvlis logikuri<br />

droa saparlamento<br />

arCevnebi, Tu nacebi<br />

ayalbeben da imarjveben, quCa<br />

gardauvalia. oRond am quCas<br />

keTriviT nu vuyurebT, quCac<br />

demokratiis iseTive gamovlinebaa,<br />

rogoric parlamenti.<br />

Tavs gvaxvevs nacistur-propagandistuli<br />

manqana, rom quCa<br />

cudia da borotebaa. cudi qu-<br />

Ca ki ar aris, aramed sisxlis-<br />

Rvra, romelic, SeiZleba, nacisturma<br />

reJimma moawyos!<br />

me megona rom, sazogadoeba<br />

Seqmnil situacias<br />

sworad gamoiyenebda,<br />

wina wlebSi<br />

daSvebul Secdomebs gaaanalizebda<br />

da mis gamosworebas<br />

Seecdeboda, nacvlad ki erTi<br />

Tvea ukve imaze vdaobT, aqvs<br />

nakli biZina ivaniSvils Tu<br />

ara...<br />

ciyvebiviT borbalSi vtrialebT<br />

da, rogorc vatyob, kidev<br />

didxans vitrialebT...<br />

saerTo gazeTi<br />

xalxis azriT<br />

Tu xedav, rom adamianSi<br />

yvelaferi adamianuri<br />

pirutyvma<br />

Cakla da mxolod pirutyvuli<br />

instinqtebiT cxovrobs.<br />

mxolod Wama-moneleba<br />

ainteresebs da ar aRelvebs ra<br />

fasad da visi. mxolod pirutyvuli<br />

vnebebiT cxovrobs, sadac<br />

moundeba da visTanac moundeba..dorbli<br />

da cingli er-<br />

Tnairad gasdis... aseTi adamianisadmi<br />

ra grZnoba unda gagiCndeT<br />

qarTvelebo, qristianebo..unda<br />

SegezizRoT Tu unda<br />

SegecodoT? (miTumetes Tu<br />

dafiqrdebiT ratom gaxda is<br />

aseTi an rogor moxvda iq sadac<br />

aris). Tqveni azri maintersebs:<br />

zizRi Tu sibraluli?<br />

dRes momiyvnen erTi<br />

saintereso ambavi qarTu<br />

bankTan ganviTarebul<br />

movlenebze.<br />

vakis filialSi 2 dRis win<br />

moxuci qalbatoni mdgara, vi-<br />

Rac axalgazrda misula da<br />

ukiTxavs _ qalbatono, ramiT<br />

xom ar dagexmaroT, angariSis<br />

gaxsna Tu gnebavT, dagexmarebi-<br />

To, qalbatonma upasuxa: – samwuxarod,<br />

fuli ar maqvs, Svilo,<br />

Torem Zalian minda angariSis<br />

gaxsnao, am axalzrdam<br />

sakuTari jibidan dado fuli<br />

da angariSi gauxsna ucnob<br />

qalbatons `qarTu bankSi~. p.s.<br />

es fanatizmi ar aris. es rwmenaa,<br />

rwmena ukeTesi momavlisa<br />

– rwmena qarTuli ocnebis realobisa.<br />

sayovelTao daumor-<br />

Cileblobis gamocxadeba<br />

upriani iqneboda<br />

momxdari ubedurebis<br />

momdevno dReebSi an 26 maiss<br />

momxdar darbevis Semdgom, magram,<br />

roca qveyanaSi gamoCnda<br />

miSas sapirwone Zala ivaniSvilis<br />

saxiT, romelmac Riad ganacxada<br />

araviTari mitingebi<br />

xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad,<br />

aramed mxolod arCevnebio, ratom<br />

apirebT areulobis Semotanas<br />

maSin, roca swored areuloba<br />

awyobs miSas da mis<br />

xrovas, iqneb dafiqrdeT, rom<br />

Tqven avtomaturad xdebiT iaraRi<br />

miSas xelSi, xalxis dasasjelad<br />

da miSas wisqvilze<br />

wylis damsxmelad.<br />

SemogvierTdi<br />

facebook-ze<br />

`saerTo gazeTi~<br />

21<br />

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---

22 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

`am reJimis winaaRmdeg<br />

brZolas viwyebT ara civi<br />

iaraRiT, aramed ufro Zlieri<br />

iaraRiT _ gonebiT, guliT,<br />

saqmiT~ _ mimarTa filarmoniaSi<br />

sagangebod Sekrebil<br />

xalxs nana guluam.<br />

qalbatoni nana ruseTSi<br />

moRvawe biznesmenis mindia guluas<br />

daa. Tavad mindia saqar-<br />

TveloSi ramdenime Tvis win<br />

Camovida, Tumca aeroportSi<br />

daakaves da samSobloSi dabrunebis<br />

saSualeba ar misces.<br />

ruseTidan daxmarebis uflebac<br />

CamoarTves: 100 mln.-ian investiciaze,<br />

rasac gulua soflis<br />

meurneobis aRorZinebaSi abandebda,<br />

saakaSvilis xelisuflebam<br />

uari Tqva.<br />

sxvaTa Soris, gulua ruseTSi<br />

dafrTianebuli zogier-<br />

Ti biznesmenisgan imiTac gamoirCeva,<br />

rom samSobloSi Camosvlisa<br />

da dabrunebis survili<br />

gauCnda.<br />

Tavad fesvebs mowyvetili<br />

Tanamemamuleebis nugeSi Seiqna<br />

da moskovSi qarTul saTvistomo<br />

`iberias~ Caudga saTave-<br />

Si. uSurvelad patronobda,<br />

materialurad exmareboda Ti-<br />

Toeul qarTvels. axla saakaSvilis<br />

Cinovnikebisagan uflebaayrili,<br />

konkretuli mizezis<br />

gareSe moqalaqeobaCamorTmeuli,<br />

mainc ar kargavs imeds.<br />

saqarTveloSi ki mindia<br />

guluas dawyebul saqmes misi<br />

da-nana gulua Caudgeba saTave-<br />

Si. ai, am axali saqmis irgvliv<br />

iyo ramdenime dRis win<br />

filarmoniisTvisac ki uCveulo<br />

xalxmravloba. qarTveloba<br />

`ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~<br />

imediT Seikriba.<br />

foieSi Jurnalistebi gadigamodiodnen,<br />

e.w. cnobad saxeebs<br />

eZebdnen. sanam media `sakbilos~<br />

dasdevda, Sexvedris<br />

maspinZels Tadarigi daeWira<br />

da iqve buterbrodebiT, namcxvriT,<br />

tkbileuliT, gaziani<br />

sasmeliT eloda mozRvavebul<br />

xalxs.<br />

e.w. `prezentacia~, (rogorc<br />

am bolo dros partiebis dafuZnebas<br />

vuwodebT,) `xorumiT~<br />

gaixsna. qarTul cekvas himni<br />

mohyva. himns simRera `qristeSobaze~,<br />

rac ansambl `Tu-<br />

TarCelas~ gogonebma imdenad<br />

mSobliurad, imdenad emociurad<br />

damuxtulebma Seasrules,<br />

isedac erTi ideiT _ `saqarTvelos<br />

ganaxlebiT~ Sekrebilebs<br />

qarTuli ZarRvi kidev<br />

erTxel samSoblos gancdiT<br />

SeutokdebodaT. piradad Cemze<br />

darbazSi Cemi kuTxis xalxismegrelebis<br />

saubaric moqmedebda<br />

emociurad (imedia, qsenofobiad<br />

ar CameTvleba) rogorc<br />

gairkva, organizatorebs afxazeTidan<br />

devnilebisTvisac moeyaraT<br />

Tavi. bolos da bolos,<br />

am tkivilgamovlil xalxsac<br />

miaqcies yuradReba-meTqi, gavifiqre.<br />

Sexvedra dima jaianma<br />

gaxsna. is iyo am krebis konferansie.<br />

dima jaiani, msaxiobi<br />

`saerTo saxalxo winaaRmdegobis<br />

moZraobis~ warmomadgeneli:<br />

_ `Cqimi jima, cota gvi-<br />

Wirs, magram mainc davbrundebiT~<br />

_ jansuR Carkvianis leqsiT<br />

gaamxneva stumrebi.<br />

poetma erekle saRlianma<br />

rusofobiis winaaRmdegac<br />

isaubra da SeniSna, ruseTSi<br />

moRvawe qarTveli biznesmenebis<br />

araerovnulobaSi dadana-<br />

Sauleba, iseTive sibece iqneboda,<br />

Tavis droze iliasTvisac<br />

Tergdaleuloba gvesayvedurao.<br />

`politikaSi avtoritets<br />

ar warmovadgen. Tumca<br />

mainc vityvi, dRes, yvela resursi<br />

unda SevkriboT saqarTvelosTvis.<br />

mivesalmebi nana<br />

guluas partiis dafuZnebas,<br />

aseve mivesalmebi batoni biZinas<br />

politikaSi mosvlas. amasac<br />

vityvi, mtrebis survilis<br />

miuxedavad, im daxmarebebis da<br />

`grantebis~ miuxedavad, rasac<br />

gvawvdian, yvelam icodes, sam-<br />

Soblos ver Cagvadebineben. saqarTvelos<br />

ar gavyidiT~<br />

reJisori levan anjafariZe:<br />

_ `sakuTar Tavs da<br />

Tqven, qarTvelebo, gilocavT<br />

iseTi partiis Camoyalibebas,<br />

romelic sabolood daZravs am<br />

gayinul realobas. `ganaxlebuli<br />

saqarTvelo~ TiToeuli<br />

qarTvelis xsna da imedi iqneba.<br />

dReis amas iqeT, aRarasodes<br />

vnaxav Cems xalxs damfr-<br />

Txalsa da SeSinebuls. saqar-<br />

Tvelos namdvilad sWirdeba<br />

ganaxleba~<br />

reJisorma partiis simbolikazec<br />

isaubra da SeniSna:<br />

alamze gamosaxul ferebs rac<br />

Seexeba: TeTri-sispetakis, zneobis,<br />

lurji-Cveni Savi zRvis,<br />

xolo oqrosferi- im teritoriebis<br />

simbolod SeirCa, rasac<br />

jerjerobiT ver vakontrolebT.<br />

Tumca maT dakargvas<br />

verafriT SeveguebiTo. `TiToeuli<br />

Tqvengani uzomod miyvarxarT~<br />

_ saubris bolos gamogvicxada<br />

wuTis win `gapolitikosebulma~<br />

reJisorma.<br />

simbolikis ganmartebis mere,<br />

Sexvedra isev klasikur,<br />

oRond ukve moWarbebulad<br />

zeoficialur stilSi gagr-<br />

Zelda. Cans, maspinZlebs undodaT<br />

sakuTar gulwrfelobaSi<br />

stumrebic daerwmunebinaT da<br />

partiis programa, wesdeba, delegatTa<br />

sia, ase gansajeT,<br />

`ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~<br />

wevrebis kenWisyra sul `patakiT~<br />

Cagvabares. roca jeri<br />

gamgeobis wevrTa arCevaze midga,<br />

5 piris SemadgenlobiT vakompleqtebTo,<br />

darbazis ukana<br />

rigebidan TiTqos erTdroulad<br />

ixuvles- xuTi ar varga,<br />

xuTi cudi ricxviao. maSin<br />

yrilobis Tavmjdomare valeri<br />

gabeliam `eqspromtad~ Seageba<br />

winadadeba-kargi, problema ar<br />

aris, Svidkaciani iyos gamgeobao.<br />

hoda, axali wevrebis wardgenac<br />

aucilebeli Seiqna.<br />

darbazma myisierad moifiqra<br />

kandidatebi: irakli qardava<br />

da giorgi vaniSvili. valeri<br />

gabeliam vaniSvilis nacvlad,<br />

ivaniSvili gamoacxada. -ivaniSvilic<br />

kargi iqneboda-enamoswrebulad<br />

ixumra viRacam darbazidan.<br />

bolos da bolos, partiis<br />

Tavmjdomarec wargvidgines.<br />

axalgazrda, energiuli qalbatoni<br />

swrafad gamoCnda darbazSi<br />

da emociurad damuxtuli<br />

sityva Seageba stumrebs.<br />

nana gulua: `ganaxlebuli<br />

saqarTvelos~ Tavmjdomare:<br />

_ `var qarTveli deda, qar-<br />

Tveli mecnieri. es regaliebic<br />

ki Cemi samSoblos gadarCenis-<br />

Tvis sakmarisi ar aRmoCnda.<br />

kidev ufro metad miyvars Ce-<br />

mi saqarTvelo da miviRe qveynis<br />

gadarCenisaTvis sapasuxismgeblo<br />

gadawyvetileba.<br />

Rrmad mwams, Cven erTad metis<br />

gakeTeba SegviZlia. zogierTebs<br />

hgoniaT, rom saqarTvelos<br />

ayvavebas mxolod turizmis<br />

ganviTareba uSvelis. soflis<br />

meurneobis aRorZinebaSia<br />

saqarTvelos xsna, rwmenadabrunebuli<br />

mSromeli kacia Cveni<br />

imedi.<br />

da ZmisTvisao, orive<br />

ki `ganaxlebuli<br />

saqarTvelosTvis~<br />

bednieri var, radgan soxumSi<br />

vcxovrobdi da vswavlobdi,<br />

Tumca meore mxriv,<br />

ubedurebaa, roca iq Casvlis<br />

ufleba dakarguli gvaqvs,<br />

mjera- droebiT.<br />

saqarTveloSi erTi ubedureba<br />

ar gvakmares. samjer da<br />

mravaljer devnilebi xdebian<br />

Cveni Tanamoqalaqeebi. visac ar<br />

geSiniaT, visac Cemebr da Cemze<br />

metad uyvars samSoblo,<br />

imaT gasagonad vacxadebviwyebT<br />

brZolas qveynis gaTavisuflebisaTvis.<br />

TiToeuli mimarTulebiT<br />

gvaqvs konkretuli gegmebi,<br />

konkretuli ideebi. dafinansebasTan<br />

dakavSirebiTac gansakuTrebuli<br />

idea. amitom Zalian<br />

gTxovT moviTminoT.<br />

Cemi Zma aris Cemi Zma, nana<br />

guluas Zma da is CemTan erTad<br />

aris, rogorc Zma. Tqven rogor<br />

ggoniaT, me, SeiZleba myavdes<br />

iseTi Zma, romelic ar<br />

mexmareba?~_<br />

guram fircxalava:<br />

msaxiobi `saxalxo krebis~<br />

warmomadgeneli da `winaaRmdegobis<br />

moZraobis~ wevri:<br />

_ `kidev erTi axali partia<br />

Seiqmna, Seiqmna qveynisTvis,<br />

rom bolos da bolos,<br />

gveSvelos.<br />

mivesalmebi yvela partias,<br />

romelic cotaTi, Tu bevrad<br />

win waswevs Cvens saqmes. nana<br />

guluam Tqva, davibrunoT Cveni<br />

samSoblo afxazeTio da si-<br />

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />

internetSi<br />

www.saertogazeti.net<br />

SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />

marTle giTxraT, cremlebi wamomcvivda.<br />

ratom unda viyoT<br />

Cven usamSoblod? Tanac daumata:<br />

samjer devnilebad gadagvaqcieso,<br />

esec gulze momxvda,<br />

ase ar unda xdebodes saqarTveloSi.<br />

gaumarjos am partias~<br />

valeri gabelia: _<br />

loialuri da liberaluri mimarTulebis<br />

partia viqnebiT.<br />

ar aris gamoricxuli biZina<br />

ivaniSvilTanac viTanamSromloT,<br />

radgan mis partias didi<br />

avtoriteti aqvs saqarTvelo-<br />

Si. yvela WeSmarit opoziciur<br />

ZalasTan viTanamSromlebT,<br />

oRond fsevdoopoziciasTan _<br />

vera. sxvaTa Soris, ivaniSvilis<br />

partiis rigebidan bevri<br />

Cven SemogvierTda. amboben-aq<br />

ufro fasobs Tavisufali<br />

sityva da moqmedebis Tavisuflebac<br />

metiao.<br />

_ ra formiT iqneba mindia<br />

gulua am partiaSi CarTuli?_<br />

_ batoni mindia jerjerobiT<br />

absoluturad ar aris<br />

CarTuli am partiis saqmianobaSi,<br />

arc vici, ras izams momavalSi.<br />

partias uSualod<br />

uxelmZRvanelebs misi da, nana<br />

gulua. marTalia, igi politikaSi<br />

pirvel nabijebs dgams,<br />

Tumca sakmaod warmatebuli<br />

mecnieria. qalbaton nanas didi<br />

avtoriteti aqvs TanamemamuleebSi.<br />

bevri saqvelmoqmedo saqme<br />

gaukeTebia._<br />

_ dRevandel Sekrebaze<br />

Warbad iyo afxazeTis Tema,<br />

gaCnda imedi-bolos da bolos,<br />

devnilebis problemebiTac dainteresdeba<br />

vinme?<br />

_mindia gulua saqarTvelos<br />

teritoriuli mTlianobis<br />

dacvisaTvis ibrZoda afxazeTSi,<br />

mravaljer iyo daWrili,<br />

mainc gadarCa RvTis nebiT<br />

da devnilis statusiT wavida<br />

ruseTSi.<br />

axla moqalaqeobis problema<br />

aqvs saqarTveloSi. Cven<br />

da CvenTan erTad sruliad<br />

saqarTvelos unda misi Camosvla,<br />

rom sakuTari SromiT da<br />

ofliT naRvawi daabandos sam-<br />

SobloSi. misi survilia, am<br />

metad mZime yofierebaSi daexmaros<br />

da gverdSi daudges<br />

qarTvel ers .<br />

jerjerobiT mindia gulua<br />

am partias ar afinansebs.<br />

moqalaqeobasac miaRwevs.<br />

amisTvis ukve daiwyo brZola.<br />

Tu mieca saSualeba, saqar-<br />

TveloSi Camova da aucileblad<br />

ibrZolebs qveynis ukeTesi<br />

momavlisTvis. ra Tqma unda,<br />

pirvel rigSi devnilebis<br />

problemebs moagvarebs, aseve<br />

prioritetuli iqneba misTvis<br />

soflis meurneobis aRorZineba.<br />

naTia nodia

---

#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

xalxis azriT<br />

am bolo periodSi ismis<br />

braldeba, rom ivaniSvilma<br />

saqarTvelos<br />

omis dawyeba daabrala<br />

preskonferenciaze. sainteresoa<br />

isic, rom arcerTi mxare ar daakvirda<br />

im terminologias, rac<br />

ivaniSvilma gamoiyena. sxva politikosebisgan<br />

gansxvavebiT,<br />

ivaniSvilma Tqva “2008 wlis<br />

saomari moqmedebebi” es ki ukve<br />

gamoricxavs omis dawyebas, radgan<br />

saomari moqmedebebi adre<br />

dawyebuli omis gagrZelebaa.<br />

nodiac ki prognozebiT<br />

<strong>gamodis</strong> momavali<br />

xelisuflebis personalur<br />

Semadgenlobaze<br />

da pirveli SemTxvevaa, mgoni,<br />

rom veTanxmebi: prezidenti –<br />

alasania, parlamentis Tavmjdomare<br />

– usufaSvili, premieri<br />

ivaniSvili. zogma eqspertma<br />

mTavrobis personalur Semadgenlobaze<br />

daiwyo saubari. Zalianac<br />

kargi. nodias Sesavalma<br />

gamacina:”albaToba, rom isini<br />

xelisuflebaSi movlen, ar aris<br />

maRali, magram varaudebi SeiZleba<br />

gamovTqvaT” :)<br />

miSam mixalkovis qaliSvilis<br />

qorwilSi<br />

misvliT da rusuli<br />

romansebis tkbobiT ra<br />

,,satopke” augdo Salvas dardubalasTvis!<br />

ise, kalmaxeliZe<br />

rom mivaTxovoT Jirinovskis?<br />

xom xdeboda xolme aseTi politikuri<br />

qorwinebebi? daTboba<br />

da Tvalebidan gadmoRvrili<br />

`Cuvstvebi” mere naxeT:)).<br />

miSas preskonferencia<br />

bunebaSi ar arsebobs.<br />

SevardnaZis tradiciuli<br />

yovelkvireuli<br />

preskonferenciebis Semdeg saqarTvelos<br />

prezidents, realurad,<br />

preskonferencia ar hqonia.<br />

miSas uyvars monologebi, roca<br />

kiTxvas aravin usvams da rasac<br />

unda, imas laparakobs - TavisTvis<br />

mierekeba. an uaresi - uyvars<br />

davarcxnili, „Cawyobili“ brifingebi,<br />

sadac win mxolod misi<br />

rCeuli sami televiziis daqoqili<br />

saTamaSo uzis, Tvalebs ufaxulebs<br />

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xolo biZina - kaci, romelic<br />

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personis Sesaxeb TiTqmis arafe-<br />

ri vicodiT, gacilebiT komunikabeluri<br />

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warmogvedgina. koiotebma<br />

amiT borotad isargebles...<br />

saocreba iciT, ra-<br />

Sia?am aramzadebma imdens<br />

miaRwies, miliarders<br />

xalxi iqiT uxdis<br />

fuls!:)))eseTi ram kacobriobis<br />

istorias ar axsovs,<br />

swored amas hqvia borotebis<br />

siyvaruliT damarcxeba!!!<br />

erTaderTi qveyana varT<br />

msoflioSi, sadac<br />

cirki araa ukve 3 <strong>weli</strong>a.<br />

arada, ramdeni<br />

masxara gamoCnda... am xalxs dasaqmeba<br />

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msoflios arc erT<br />

cirks ar Rirsebia arasodes !!!<br />

20 <strong>weli</strong>a msoflio Cvens cirks<br />

uyurebs, Tavisi uTvalavi klounebiT<br />

!!! garedan vinc uyurebs,<br />

ecinebaT, Signidan vinc vuyurebT<br />

_ ara.<br />

yabzoba.<br />

nacebis kvnesa vnaxe da<br />

magaTi Tvalis dafsoba,<br />

mTel saqarTvelos<br />

ahkides politikuri<br />

am saakaSvilis naxmar<br />

lamazmanebs raRa eSvelebaT,<br />

neta, upatronod<br />

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rom qalTan gulaobs da mere<br />

Tavis naTrev qals xelisuflebaSi<br />

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saxelmwifos mier dadgenili<br />

specialuri gadasaxadi, romelic<br />

gadaixdevineba moqalaqeTa<br />

mier sasamarTloSi Setanil<br />

sarCelebsa da gancxadebebze da<br />

romlis odenobac gansxvavdeba<br />

imis mixdviT, Tu vin mimarTavs<br />

sasamarTlos da ras iTxovs.<br />

mosarCeleebi alimentis<br />

gadaxdevinebis sarCelebze<br />

saxelmwifo biujetis<br />

sasargeblod sasamar-<br />

Tlo xarjebis gadasaxadisagan<br />

Tavisufldebian,<br />

samoqalaqo saproceso<br />

kodeqsis 46-e muxlis I<br />

nawilis `a~ qvepunqtis<br />

Sesabamisad.<br />

aqedan gamomdinare,<br />

Tqven alimentis gadaxdevinebis<br />

sarCelTan dakav-<br />

SirebiT saxelmwifo baJs<br />

ar gadaixdiT.<br />

* * *<br />

_ ra SemTxvevebSi xdeba sasamarTlo<br />

xarjebis gadaxdisagan<br />

gaTavisufleba?<br />

_ saxelmwifo biujetis sasargeblod<br />

sasamarTlo, xarjebis<br />

gadaxdisagan Tavisufldebian:<br />

a) mosarCeleebi _ alimentis<br />

gadaxdevinebis sarCelebze.<br />

b) mosarCeleebi-dasaxiCrebiT<br />

an janmrTelobis sxva dazianebiT,<br />

agreTve, marCenalis sikvdiliT<br />

miyenebuli zianis<br />

anazRaurebis sarCelebze;<br />

g) mosarCeleebi-danaSauliT<br />

miyenebuli materialuri zaralis<br />

anazRaurebis sarCelebze.<br />

d) mxareebi _ ukanono msjavrdebis,<br />

sisxlis samarTlis pasuxisgebaSi<br />

ukanonod micemis,<br />

aRkveTis RonisZiebad dapatimrebis<br />

ukanonod gamoyenebis an gamasworebel<br />

samuSaoTa saxiT<br />

adinistraciuli saxdelis ukanonod<br />

dadebis Sedegad moqalaqisaTvis<br />

miyenebuli zaralis<br />

anazRaurebasTan dakavSirebul<br />

sarCelebze;<br />

e) mosarCeleebi _ arasrulwlovanTa<br />

uflebebis darRvevas-<br />

Tan dakavSirebul sarCelebze.<br />

v) mxareebi, romlebic dadgenili<br />

wesiT registrirebuli<br />

arian socialurad daucveli<br />

ojaxebis monacemTa erTian baza-<br />

Si da iReben saarsebo Semweobas,<br />

rac dasturdeba Sesabamisi dokumentaciiT:<br />

z) mxareebi _ winaswari (Sualeduri)<br />

gadawyvetilebis saapelacio<br />

an sakasacio wesebiT<br />

gasaCivrebisas.<br />

kanoniT SeiZleba gaTvaliswinebul<br />

iqnes saxelmwifo biujetis<br />

sasargeblod sasamarTlo<br />

xarjebis gadaxdisagan mxareTa<br />

gaTavisuflebis sxva SemTxvevebic.<br />

* * *<br />

_ ganqorwinebis saqmis ganxilvisas<br />

dRevandeli samoqalaqo<br />

kanonmdebloba kvlav iTvaliswinebs<br />

Tu ara meuRleTa Sesarigeblad<br />

vadis daniSvnas?<br />

_ iTvaliswinebs.<br />

ganqorwinebis saqmis ganxilvisas<br />

sasamarTlo iRebs garkveul<br />

zomebs meuRleTa Sesarigeblad.<br />

mas aqvs ufleba gadados<br />

saqmis ganxilva da meuRleebs<br />

Sesarigeblad dauniSnos vada,<br />

romelic ar unda aRematebodes<br />

6 Tves. Tuki sasamarTlo daadgens,<br />

rom, miuxedavad am zomebisa,<br />

meuRleTa Semdgomi Tanacxovreba<br />

da ojaxis SenarCuneba<br />

SeuZlebelia, maSin igi iRebs<br />

gadawyvetilebas ganqorwinebis<br />

Sesaxeb.<br />

* * *<br />

_ samoqalaqo saqmis ganxilvisas<br />

visgan SeiZleba axna-ganmartebis<br />

miReba?<br />

_ ar SeiZleba axsna-ganmartebis<br />

miReba.<br />

a) iseTi pirebisagan, romlebsac<br />

Tavisi fizikuri naklis an fsiqikuri<br />

aSlilobis gamo ar SeuZlia<br />

sworad aRiqvas faqtebi da misces<br />

maT Sesaxeb swori Cveneba;<br />

b) sasuliero pirisa an iseT<br />

garemoebaTa Sesaxeb, romlebic maT<br />

gaandves aRsarebis dros.<br />

g) Tanamdebobis pirisagan iseT<br />

garemoebebze, romelTa Sesaxeb saidumloebis<br />

dacvac mis samsaxurebriv<br />

movaleobaSi Sedis, Tu igi ga-<br />

Tavisuflebuli ar aris aseTi saidumloebis<br />

dacvisagan.<br />

* * *<br />

_ samoqalaqo kanonmdeblobiT,<br />

aRiareba iTvleba Tu ara sakmaris<br />

mtkicebulebad? ras gvetyviT, zogadad,<br />

am mtkicebulebis Sesaxeb?<br />

_ erTi mxaris mier iseTi garemoebis<br />

arsebobis an ararsebobis dadastureba<br />

(aRiareba), romelzedac<br />

meore mxare amyarebs Tavis moTxovnebsa<br />

Tu Sesagebels, sasamarTlom<br />

SeiZleba sakmaris mtkicebulebad<br />

CaTvalos da safuZvlad daudos sasamarTlo<br />

gadawyvetilebas.<br />

saqmisaTvis mniSvnelobis mqone<br />

garemoebis arsebobis an ararsebobis<br />

aRiareba mxares SeuZlia rogorc<br />

zepiri, ise werilobiTi formiT,<br />

saqmis winaswari sasamarTlo gan-<br />

saerTo gazeTi<br />

`saerTo gazeTis~ iuridiuli konsultacia<br />

xilvisaTvis momzadebis an am saqmis<br />

sasamarTlo sxdomaze ganxilvis<br />

dros. Tu aRiareba warmodgenilia<br />

werilobiTi formiT, igi daerTvis<br />

saqmes. zepirad gakeTebuli aRiareba<br />

Seitaneba sasamarTlo xdomis<br />

oqmSi.<br />

mxares SeuZlia, sasamarTlos<br />

mier gadawyvetilebis gamotanamde<br />

gaaqarwylos (uaryos) Tavisi aRiareba,<br />

Tu daamtkicebs, rom es aRiareba<br />

iyo Secdomis Sedegi da ganpirobebuli<br />

iyo iseTi garemoebiT,<br />

romelic cnobili gaxda misTvis<br />

aRiarebis Semdeg, anda masze fsiqikuri<br />

Tu fizikuri zemoqmedebiT,<br />

romelic gamoricxavda mis Tavisufal<br />

nebas.<br />

aRiarebis uaryofa sasamarTlom<br />

unda daasabuTos Tavis gadawyvetilebaSi.<br />

* * *<br />

_ dedam anderZiT damitova qoneba.<br />

gardacvlili myavs da, romelsac<br />

darCa ori qaliSvili,<br />

SeuZliaT Tu ara Cems disSvilebs<br />

Semomedavon qonebis<br />

miRebisas.<br />

_ SeuZliaT.<br />

_ Tqven da Tqveni da iTvlebodiT<br />

dedaTqvenis I rigiT<br />

memkvidreebad. Tqveni da<br />

gardacvlilia. misi wamomadgenlebi<br />

arian disSvilebi. vinaidan,<br />

saxeze gvaqvs anderZiT<br />

memkvidreoba da ara kanonismieri,<br />

Tqvens disSvilebs SeuZliaT<br />

moiTxovon dedamisis,<br />

rogorc I rigis memkvidris<br />

savaldebulo wili. Tqveni da<br />

rom cocxali yofiliyo, is<br />

miiRebda qonebis naxevris naxevars.<br />

am naxevris naxevarze (savaldebulo<br />

wili) pretenzia rom gauCndeT<br />

Tqvens disSvilebs, nu gagikvirdebaT.<br />

kanoni maT amis uflebas aZlevs.<br />

* * *<br />

_ rogor xdeba pensiis daniSvna?<br />

_ socialuri dazvevis erTian<br />

saxelmwifo fondSi, Tqveni gancxadebis<br />

safuZvelze, kompensaciis an<br />

saxelmwifo akademiuri stipendiis<br />

daniSvna moxdeba gancxadebis wardgenis<br />

dRidan.<br />

marCenalis gardacvalebis gamo,<br />

kompensacia iniSneba marCenalis gardacvalebis<br />

dRidan, Tu gancxadeba<br />

kompetentur organoSi wardgenili<br />

iqneba gardacvalebidan 3 Tvis vada-<br />

Si. am vadis gasvlis SemTxvevaSi,<br />

kompensacia iniSneba gancxadebis<br />

wardgenis dRidan.<br />

* * *<br />

_ mamaCemi brmaa. apirebs ander-<br />

Zis daweras rogori moxdeba es?<br />

SeiZleba Tu ara anderZi Sinauruli<br />

formiT daiweros?<br />

_ Tu moanderZe brmaa (an wera-kiTxvis<br />

ucodinari), anderZi<br />

unda Sedges notariusTan sami<br />

mowmis TandaswrebiT, ris Sesaxeb<br />

unda gakeTdes saTanado Canaweri,<br />

romelic waekiTxeba moanderZes.<br />

am dros ar SeiZleba<br />

anderZis Camweri da misi wamkiTxveli<br />

erTi da igive piri<br />

iyosCanawerSi aucileblad unda<br />

iqnas miTiTebuli, Tu vin gaake-<br />

Ta Canaweri da vin waukiTxa moanderZes.<br />

Canawers xeli unda<br />

moaweron mowmeebma da daadasturos<br />

notariusma.<br />

aqedan gamomdinare, brma pirovnebis<br />

(an wera-kiTxis ucodinari)<br />

mier anderZis Sinauruli formiT<br />

dawera kategoriulad gamoiricxeba.<br />

23

---

C M Y K<br />

24 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, <strong>2011</strong> w.<br />

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